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 Post subject: Which way is forward ?
PostPosted: May 16th, 2007, 5:40 am 
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Joined: March 19th, 2007, 12:43 am
Posts: 532
So, i now know quite a few AHK tricks, still have a long way to go, but anywhoo. I would like to start studying 1 more language along with AHK, what should i study ? That should definitily be windows apps. development and soft for mobil devices (like cellphones), but which language is better, easier, maybe closer to AHK (in the perfect world :D )?
Thx!


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PostPosted: May 16th, 2007, 5:51 am 
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Joined: August 30th, 2005, 8:43 pm
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Location: Salem, MA
mobile devices is totally different than programming for windows PC. maybe the most useful mobile language I have played with was java. search google for "midlets" to get an idea of what is possible.

It all depends on what your eventual goal is. There is less and less that can't be done in AHK.

Python is a really good language to learn too, but be careful of your formatting, since it matters in python!

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PostPosted: May 16th, 2007, 8:46 am 
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Joined: December 27th, 2005, 1:46 pm
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Location: France (near Paris)
engunneer is right, Java is probably the most common language working on any platform, from Windows to mobile phones.
It is free, it is heavy (sic...), it isn't obvious to learn.
I love Lua (people should start to know it), it is light and easy to learn, but it is not "batteries included", so you can't start making Windows programming off the shelf.
Close to AHK syntax, you have Cmd (re-sic!) and PHP: Chris took many concepts from the later, minor like the dot as concatenation symbol, or more important like globals needing to be declared in functions.
C# or VB# might be a sensible choice (might even be usable on smartphones with Windows Mobile) and Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition is free.
C (or C++) is a fundamental language (native language used to make Windows) and has many free compilers but it is hard to master, very low level.
Various flavors of Basic are available, more or less free. Basic is easy to learn. So is Euphoria, I think. You can search the later on the forum, it has been discussed (with links) for a similar topic...

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PostPosted: May 17th, 2007, 12:25 am 
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Joined: March 19th, 2007, 12:43 am
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Thanks! I guess i'll try Java.
The last time when i was trying to get into some language i lost will to study completely, maybe it was 2 early for C++ :) .
Quote:
There is less and less that can't be done in AHK.
and that's exactly the reason why i'm not gonna let it dust in my head :D


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PostPosted: May 17th, 2007, 10:26 am 
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Joined: December 27th, 2005, 1:46 pm
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Location: France (near Paris)
neXt wrote:
I guess i'll try Java.
That's not a bad choice, it gives good programming habits. The hardest part (for me) was to enter in the oriented object programming way of thinking...
I learned Java two years ago, because I had no job for a long time, and half the job offers needed Java knowledge... After my training, I found my current job in a few months, I work for a company with a Java product spawning some million of lines of code...

To start learning, maybe you will be interested by BlueJ whose motto is "Teaching Java - Learning Java".
Quote:
The BlueJ environment was developed as part of a university research project about teaching object-orientation to beginners. [...]
The aim of BlueJ is to provide an easy-to-use teaching environment for the Java language that facilitates the teaching of Java to first year students. Special emphasis has been placed on visualisation and interaction techniques to create a highly interactive environment that encourages experimentation and exploration.
I had no real opportunity to use it, but it sounds promising.

Looking at their site, I see they have a new product:
Quote:
Greenfoot is great for building graphical interactive applications (such as games and simulations) very easily and quickly. In Java. And it's free.
Interesting.

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PostPosted: May 17th, 2007, 12:58 pm 
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Joined: May 24th, 2006, 2:49 pm
Posts: 4511
Location: Belgrade
C# (better then Java), Python.

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PostPosted: May 18th, 2007, 12:04 am 
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Thanks Philo :D ,i'll def look into that.

majkinetor, well, if i lost interest to programm after i opened up a book on C++ i'm pretty shure that C# is not the best way to go, at least for now. I hear a lot about Python lately, i guess it would be a good idea to check it out as well. Thanks :D


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PostPosted: May 18th, 2007, 8:24 am 
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Location: Belgrade
C++ is not good idea. C# is better idea, but if it is really like you described, Delphi is definitely for you. Don't look any further.

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PostPosted: May 18th, 2007, 9:00 am 
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Location: France (near Paris)
Indeed, C++, C# and Java are close in syntax, but AHK isn't that far (at least for expression syntax).
I don't know C#, so I can't judge it, but I expect their designers avoided some traps in which Java designers felt by remaining too close of initial syntax of C++. So to this regard, it should be better than Java, although the later evolves regularly (Java 1.5, recent Java 1.6, incoming Java 1.7).

If neXt really want to support phones and PDAs, then Java is nearly the only way to go (or C++, but it has to be adapted to each platform...). C#, at best, can only run on mobile devices with Windows Mobile, and I am not aware of any device supporting Delphi (although it is possible, of course).

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PostPosted: May 18th, 2007, 10:55 am 
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Joined: May 24th, 2006, 2:49 pm
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Location: Belgrade
Quote:
C#, at best, can only run on mobile devices with Windows Mobile, and I am not aware of any device supporting Delphi (although it is possible, of course).

Not true.
C# runs on virtual machine. You have MONO developer for Linux platforms, you have dedicated hardware (the same is true for Java). No differences in accessibility (Java today has more chocices but due to its stage). The C# is more sophisticated and abstarct then Java, IMO. More XP, language designer famos only by good, etc..

Delphi is also available in Linux as Kylix. So you can basicly create Delphi app on Win, load project in Kylix and compile it, if you fallow some rules. Delphi 8 also has Delphi.Net so this is more like it.

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PostPosted: May 19th, 2007, 10:16 pm 
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Joined: March 19th, 2007, 12:43 am
Posts: 532
I feel very stupid at the moment :( . I went on JBlue web site, downloaded JDK6 and their compiler. But i can't get my first Hello World to print on screen :?
Code:
package je3.basics;                     
public class Hello
{                       
    public static void main(String[  ] args)
    {
        System.out.println("Hello World!"); 
    }                                       
}                                           

This code is from the book, syntax is OK according to the compiler. Their compiler is so confusing.
What compiler should i get not to be lost right in the beginning :oops: ???


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2007, 11:19 pm 
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Location: France (near Paris)
I don't know how BlueJ really works, but in classical Java, you compile by writting javac Hello.java, you then get a Hello.class file. You seems to have reached this level... You can then run the file by typing java -cp . Hello

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PostPosted: May 19th, 2007, 11:34 pm 
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Were do i type that? I see a Hello.java and Hello.class in my project directory, i compiled them by pressing a button without typing.
OMG, why couldn't they just make a RUN button like in Borland :?


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2007, 11:48 pm 
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In Eclipse, there is a Run button, I would be surprised there isn't one in BlueJ...
But you can type the java command on a plain command box in the path of the .class file.

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PostPosted: May 19th, 2007, 11:55 pm 
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Yes, they don't have that button, they got me completely cornered with running simplest program ever. Thanks for the tip on Eclipse, i'll get it instead of JBlue.


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