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Do you support SOPA?
Hell Yes! China/Iran/Taiwan have the right idea
Hell No!
I am an American and this makes me want to cry.
I am a Human and this makes me want to cry.
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PostPosted: December 29th, 2011, 11:35 pm 
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Joined: December 24th, 2008, 3:25 am
Posts: 1401
Location: :noitacoL
The end of life on the interwebs as we know it:

Who here has ever downloaded something without paying for it?
Who here has ever uploaded something they haven't created?

If Johnny Depp or Morgan Freeman, or CelebrityX really gave a damn... why aren't they forfeiting a portion of their eight to nine to TEN figure paychecks to "those who lose thier jobs due to piracy"? Why, because the don't give a damn... the same way YOU don't give a damn. Piracy doesn't effect the A-list celeb, just the poor middle man.

Thoughts? Opinions?


Quote:
Assign liability to site owners for everything users post, without consideration for whether or not the user posted without permission. Site owners could face jail time or heavy fines, and DNS blacklisting.

It would require web services like YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter to monitor and aggressively filter everything all users upload.

It would deny site owners due process of law, by initiating a DNS blacklisting based solely on a good faith assertion by an individual copyright or intellectual property owner.

It would give the U.S. government the power to selectively censor the web using techniques similar to those used in China, Malaysia and Iran. The Great Firewall of China is an example of this type of embedded, infrastructural internet censorship.


Some sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/toms-h ... 14393.html
http://boingboing.net/2011/12/02/stephe ... -sopa.html


I used to be heavy on LimeWire/Kazaa/etc, but stopped because of virus' and not conscience.

I wasn't going to buy or rent the damn move ANYWAY... I downloaded it because I could... watched it once in sh!t poor quality, and deleted it.

I downloaded one of your singles... and liked it... then bought the overprices and unfulfilling CD at a store.... hope it was worth the .10 cents the record company cut you a check for.




Starving artists my ass. Greedy corporations is more like it.




:!:


Part of this is for school, part of this is for IRL.


Last edited by Carcophan on December 30th, 2011, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 1:54 am 
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Joined: December 26th, 2010, 7:40 pm
Posts: 4172
Location: Awesometown, USA
I'm firmly against SOPA and PIPA.

http://www.stopcensorship.org


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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 2:44 am 
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nimda wrote:
I'm firmly against SOPA and PIPA.

http://www.stopcensorship.org


I'd sign this, if not for fear of 'registering' for a government watch list of 'people who support piracy'. The friends of your enemy are your enemy.


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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 3:55 am 
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Carcophan wrote:
I'd sign this, if not for fear of 'registering' for a government watch list of 'people who support piracy'. The friends of your enemy are your enemy.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you pretty much declared yourself to be a pirate in your OP. Therefore you are, in all likelihood, already on the watch list.

Don't fret though. I once mentioned the president and explosives in the same sentence over a phone line. 'THEY' are probably reading this as I type it. :!:

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 3:56 am 
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dmg wrote:
Carcophan wrote:
I'd sign this, if not for fear of 'registering' for a government watch list of 'people who support piracy'. The friends of your enemy are your enemy.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you pretty much declared yourself to be a pirate in your OP. Therefore you are, in all likelihood, already on the watch list.

Don't fret though. I once mentioned the president and explosives in the same sentence over a phone line. 'THEY' are probably reading this as I type it. :!:


We are all doomed :twisted:


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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 2:26 pm 
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The last thing this country needs is to give the government more power of more things...

I personally would have a guilty conscience about downloading something without paying for it to an extent. Many many of my friends do it. But that is partially is because they are poor as sh1t. That and they can. If one day they go to jail because they downloaded a crap version of some movie I'm going to be more than a little pissed. Is it partially their fault? yes. Does that REALLY deserve the attention AND btw millions of tax payers dollars to support. He11 no.

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 4:03 pm 
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I admit to a certain degree of resentment that the film and music industries try to force the idea that copyright infringement is necessarily theft. I refer here specifically to copying and/or downloading movies and music for personal use. In some contexts infringement can do a great deal of harm, and should be considered a criminal offense ie plagiarism, or a company steeling an invention. But copying something without permission is not the same, and I just don't see it as theft in most circumstances. I see it as closer to a combination of trespassing, invasion of privacy and/or fraud.

I personally define theft as taking something away from its rightful owner, meaning they no longer have it. This of course presupposes that they were already in possession of it. The theoretical profits these corporations complain of losing never actually existed, so claiming they lost them makes no sense.

In the case of making a copy of a DVD for personal use: you have taken nothing from the company, you have removed nothing from their possession. Now if you were making copies and selling them then you are potentially depriving the company of money. This circumstance is the closest to being theft, but it is still something closer to forgery, wrong but not equivalent to robbery.

Example:
Say you visit a car dealership, and you see a car you really like, but rather than buy it you take a bunch of photos go home to your very well equipped garage and build one that looks just like it. You have stolen nothing from the manufacturer or dealership, so it is not theft.

Along the same lines as selling copied DVDs, making a whole bunch of knockoff cars and selling them would be a bit different than making one for personal use.

And even if it were unquestionably theft, who in their right mind thinks it would be reasonable to sentence someone to five years in federal prison for stealing something worth $20? Not to mention the $500.000 fine. Then again, who ever claimed the legal system was sane. :P

Disclaimer: I do not in any way advocate breaking the law, nor do I admit to having ever personally done so. 8)

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 5:17 pm 
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Posts: 1907
Location: Minnesota, USA
dmg wrote:
You have stolen nothing from the manufacturer or dealership, so it is not theft.

This is technically true, but there is a couple things to think about:
- if you use the product you 'copied' regularly, that is 1 potential product not sold. that could be a $10 loss or $10,000 loss (or more). Of course the creators don't see every penny if it was sold by walmart or something, but it's still a loss.
- parts and labor. It costs a company $$$ to buy materials and to pay the workers. So, if you take pictures of a car but had to buy all the parts (well equipped garages don't just pop out of thin air) and do the manual labor of building it yourself and getting it safety inspected and getting other things need to make it legal, well, it IS yours. You only used a reference picture to build it. Whereas with software you COULD do the same thing. Study the concept of a program then build it yourself (with AHK? :D). However, With pirating music/movies/games/programs you are most likely NOT building it from scratch (like like you did with your car). instead you just click download, wait a couple hours (give or take) and wahla. you now posses something that OTHER PEOPLE have spent hours, days, month, years and $$$$$ on. you didn't pay a penny (like you had with your garage full of equipment).
- I think i had 1 more idea, but i'm a slow typer and forgot :D Happy Almost New Year!
Learning One wrote:
I'm sorry but I really can't give you 2 years of hard work (and counting...) absolutely for free.

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 6:30 pm 
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Location: Awesometown, USA
Tragedy of the commons... if I read the NewYork Times without paying, do they go out of buisiness? No. In fact, I don't read them online at all right now, so they suffer no loss. It's a no-change/win situation.

However, if everybody reads NYT online without paying, suddenly NYT's in debt. When a customer stops paying, it's a lose/win deal. You could argue, though, that NYT expects new readers, so when you start readig without paying, then (relatively) NYT is losing.


I think the argument "it's not theft" is flawed. When you buy a chair, the chairmaker loses the chair and gains money (and you, obviously, the opposite.) However when you go to a hotel, it's a service, not a good. Watching an online movie is more like a service: nothing material is "lost" by the maker. The real question, then, is whether watching a cinema movie without paying, or sleeping at a hotel, is theft.

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 7:26 pm 
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We've had similar in Europe - Ditigal Economy Act (UK), Hadopi (France), IPRED (Sweden) and others.

None of them have stopped online piracy and there is no indication whatsoever that rights holders have benefited from such legislation.

This has led smaller European countries like Switzerland and Holland to actually assert that downloading movies and music will remain legal.

I think the USA should learn from the examples in Europe: SOPA/PIPA will not save jobs or reduce piracy, it will only force existing pirates to go underground or create new mechanisms to bypass any blocks. In the end all that will be achieved is an increased cost for service and content providers and reduced freedoms for individual citizens.

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2011, 7:41 pm 
polyethene wrote:
We've had similar in Europe - Ditigal Economy Act (UK), Hadopi (France), IPRED (Sweden) and others.

None of them have stopped online piracy and there is no indication whatsoever that rights holders have benefited from such legislation.

This has led smaller European countries like Switzerland and Holland to actually assert that downloading movies and music will remain legal.

I think the USA should learn from the examples in Europe: SOPA/PIPA will not save jobs or reduce piracy, it will only force existing pirates to go underground or create new mechanisms to bypass any blocks. In the end all that will be achieved is an increased cost for service and content providers and reduced freedoms for individual citizens.



^^^ A beacon of light in the wilderness.

If a beacon of light shines in the wilderness and all in proximity are blind men, did it shine?


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PostPosted: December 31st, 2011, 10:21 am 
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Location: switzerland
some links
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -bill.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-larg ... es-2011-12
switzerland
https://torrentfreak.com/swiss-govt-dow ... al-111202/
swiss-german
http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/content/ejpd/d ... 11-30.html
The Author of SOPA Is a Copyright Violator
http://www.vice.com/read/lamar-smith-so ... ght-whoops


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 1:20 pm 
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 10:26 am
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Location: switzerland
Wikipedia SOPA PIPA blackout 20120118
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... Learn_more
Quote:
Why is Wikipedia blacked-out?

Wikipedia is protesting against SOPA and PIPA by blacking out the English Wikipedia for 24 hours, beginning at midnight January 18, Eastern Time. Readers who come to English Wikipedia during the blackout will not be able to read the encyclopedia. Instead, you will see messages intended to raise awareness about SOPA and PIPA, encouraging you to share your views with your representatives, and with each other on social media.

What are SOPA and PIPA?

SOPA and PIPA represent two bills in the United States House of Representatives and the United States Senate respectively. SOPA is short for the "Stop Online Piracy Act," and PIPA is an acronym for the "Protect IP Act." ("IP" stands for "intellectual property.") In short, these bills are efforts to stop copyright infringement committed by foreign web sites, but, in our opinion, they do so in a way that actually infringes free expression while harming the Internet. Detailed information about these bills can be found in the Stop Online Piracy Act and PROTECT IP Act articles on Wikipedia, which are available during the blackout. GovTrack lets you follow both bills through the legislative process: SOPA on this page, and PIPA on this one. The EFF has summarized why these bills are simply unacceptable in a world that values an open, secure, and free Internet.

Why is the blackout happening?

Wikipedians have chosen to black out the English Wikipedia for the first time ever, because we are concerned that SOPA and PIPA will severely inhibit people's access to online information. This is not a problem that will solely affect people in the United States: it will affect everyone around the world.

Why? SOPA and PIPA are badly drafted legislation that won't be effective at their stated goal (to stop copyright infringement), and will cause serious damage to the free and open Internet. They put the burden on website owners to police user-contributed material and call for the unnecessary blocking of entire sites. Small sites won't have sufficient resources to defend themselves. Big media companies may seek to cut off funding sources for their foreign competitors, even if copyright isn't being infringed. Foreign sites will be blacklisted, which means they won't show up in major search engines. And, SOPA and PIPA build a framework for future restrictions and suppression......


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 1:40 pm 
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Ironically they still show the real page for a short moment so you can see it if you cancel the page loading at the right moment...

It's good that big websites show their protest this way though.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 2:11 pm 
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It looks like XBMC has joined Wikipedia. Cool effect though...

http://xbmc.org/blackout


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