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AutoHotkey Community Let's help each other out
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| Do you want to standardize Scripts & Functions forum |
| Yes |
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42% |
[ 12 ] |
| No |
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46% |
[ 13 ] |
| I don't care |
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10% |
[ 3 ] |
| Other (xplain) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 28 |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: Standardizing Scripts & Functions forum |
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I have seen warez sites that have better organisation then this forum.
My wish is to create template for usual kind of posts. Template for function/module, template for tutorial and template for utility presentation.
Anything not obaying those rules should be moved to the hidden forum that original author can access and fix it. So if you want to present your work, you will have to do it properly.
Some script can be created that will construct BBCode message to fit the template. For instance, it can recive version, screenshot, dependencies and things like that. _________________
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PhiLho
Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 6721 Location: France (near Paris)
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't think heavy standardization should be imposed.
Now, it might be nice to have a sticky suggesting to use some template, so those willing to present they program nicely and in an organized fashion could do so.
But we must not prevent creativity or even laziness... A ten line script quickly given as is can still be useful to somebody. _________________
vPhiLho := RegExReplace("Philippe Lhoste", "^(\w{3})\w*\s+\b(\w{3})\w*$", "$1$2") |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A ten line script quickly given as is can still be useful to somebody. |
I usualy see garbage around that ppl define as "Hej, this was useful to me, *bump the script*, I hope you like it, cheers". Although such scripts can generaly be useful, they only make disorganisation thus making entire S&F forum unusable. You generaly have no mean to find out what is script about until you anallyse entire code (or run it, sometimes even that don't help)
| Quote: | | But we must not prevent creativity or even laziness... |
No, that is exactly what we should do - prevent laziness. Creativity will not be prevented. You will have lot of places to show your creativity. General chat or some other new forum can be uzed for lazy ppl. _________________
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Titan
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 5026 Location: imaginationland
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Adding complications is likely to deter users from posting, especially new members - I for one wouldn't like it. A specialized form which asked for title, description, type, usage explanation, examples and had an upload feature would do the opposite and encourage members to post everything they have. I actually planned the PHP/MySQL framework for this a few months ago. _________________
RegExReplace("irc.freenode.net/autohotkey", "^(?=(.(?=[\0-r\[]*((?<=\.).))))(?:[c-\x73]{2,8}(\S))+((2)|\b[^\2-]){2}\D++$", "$u3$1$3$4$2") |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Adding complications is likely to deter users from posting, especially new members |
Don't call lazynes by any other name. Like I said, on avaxhome warez site there are like 300 - 500 posts per day using templates. About 100 posts per day are rejected until author fix it. It didn't discourage anybody, just made entire thing much easier to browse, find search and look, which is the reason this is the most popular and most "proffesional" warez site of them all. Now, you say that AutoHotkey users are worst then arbitrary man poisting things on warez site ? S&F should not be garbage can, but well organised place where ppl can find and learn easily.
As I see it, this can only motivate serious ppl. Those, non serious, I don't need.
| Quote: | | A specialized form which asked for title, description, type, usage explanation, examples and had an upload feature would do the opposite and encourage members to post everything they have. I actually planned the PHP/MySQL framework for this a few months ago. |
Didn't I say so ? I don't think PHP/MSQL is required, though, unless you don't have anything else to do. S&F is disorganised and should be fixed. _________________
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Rajat
Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 1717
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I voted yes. I'd like some sort of standardization. But nothing too complicated or daunting.
Just these:
- Basic description
- Requirements (if any, like minimum ahk version or anything external)
- Screenshot (optional)
- Download link (many ppl forget to add this initially)
maybe something else that I missed out ... _________________
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Titan
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 5026 Location: imaginationland
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| majkinetor wrote: | | on avaxhome warez site there are like 300 - 500 posts per day | If you do the math you'll see the current participation level in ahk is 500 times less, so you can't compare the two.
| majkinetor wrote: | | the most popular and most "proffesional" warez site of them all. | Maybe in Russian; I know English tor+warez sites that look 1000x better and use forms for submission (that's excluding the pretty AJAX ones).
| majkinetor wrote: | | this can only motivate serious ppl. Those, non serious, I don't need. | Then our philosophies are different, I'd like to encourage new users so we have people with varied talents on the forum.
| majkinetor wrote: | | Didn't I say so ? [dynamic web forms] | No, you said "My wish is to create template for usual kind of posts ... that will construct BBCode," this won't improve search results because it depends how the author chooses to word their post. With a form and a database scripts can be categorized and searched with keywords.
I voted idrc by the way, because I'm not as strongly opposed as PhiLho. _________________
RegExReplace("irc.freenode.net/autohotkey", "^(?=(.(?=[\0-r\[]*((?<=\.).))))(?:[c-\x73]{2,8}(\S))+((2)|\b[^\2-]){2}\D++$", "$u3$1$3$4$2") |
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toralf
Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 3842 Location: Bremen, Germany
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I didn't vote yet.
1) I sometimes have problems to find scripts in the forum. Even when I remember their name or other information. Let alone when I have a problem and search for possible solutions.
2) I don't like to complicate the process to post scripts. Since I see several nice scripts with bits and pieces. Giving me ideas of possibilities. And these scripts would be wrongly placed in the Ask for help section. And barrier for new users would be higher.
3) Even a database needs maintainance. Otherwise people could just post everything in the database and making it un-usable. Who would do the maintainance?
Maybe a database could be added as an additional option. And some special database moderators maintain them. Users could still post in forum, but can apply for database approval. _________________ Ciao
toralf  |
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PhiLho
Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 6721 Location: France (near Paris)
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Titan wrote: | | I'm not as strongly opposed as PhiLho. | I am opposed to format the current forum, as it won't work (who will filter all the incorrect posts?).
I am in favor of the idea of a script database with specialized input fields, enhancing the structure, reducing the garbage, forgotten data, and so on.
This would allow both an informal, current Scripts & Function section (how to convert all existing scripts otherwise?) and a formal, better searchable base. _________________
vPhiLho := RegExReplace("Philippe Lhoste", "^(\w{3})\w*\s+\b(\w{3})\w*$", "$1$2") |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| titan wrote: | | Maybe in Russian; I know English tor+warez sites that look 1000x better and use forms for submission (that's excluding the pretty AJAX ones). |
Avax use form submission with automatic mirrroring.
Anyway, It just proves my point. How ffs warez forum can be better organised then this place ? What.. warez ppl are more serious ?
| titan wrote: | | Then our philosophies are different, I'd like to encourage new users so we have people with varied talents on the forum. |
Yes, our philosophie is different. Encouraging users is a bit different then tolerating their lazines.
Leting ppl post like they want will just continue what is already long on its way: S&F forum that is one hungry black hole.
I am for more radical measures then not to make a baby cry.
| toralf wrote: | | 3) Even a database needs maintainance. Otherwise people could just post everything in the database and making it un-usable. Who would do the maintainance? |
There is definitely need for another moderator who will maintain S&F with or without database.
| Quote: | | And these scripts would be wrongly placed in the Ask for help section. | Not there. I suggest other places as AHK is black hole per se, just 10 times bigger then S&F. Perhaps some new forum that can be called - Ideas, snipets and tutorials. S&F should be reserved for organised work.
| Quote: | | I am opposed to format the current forum, as it won't work (who will filter all the incorrect posts?). |
I will do it.
Don't worry, I don't expect you to do anything.
| Philho wrote: | | how to convert all existing scripts otherwise? |
Existing scripts will be converted by their respective authors if they continue to update it or want to have it in organised matter. If original author doesn't care, I can't care less. Somebody will do it sonner or later.
I beleive this is good preparation for StdLib that is surely about to come during next year. _________________
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Titan
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 5026 Location: imaginationland
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| majkinetor wrote: | | Avax use form submission with automatic mirrroring. | You're confusing me. In your first post you request templates for better accessibility and presentation. You then went on to mention organization and search, to which I argued that templates are irrelevant because search algorithms analyze how posts are worded, so a form and database would be more useful. Now you're backing my point. Where exactly do you stand?
Do you even have any template ideas? _________________
RegExReplace("irc.freenode.net/autohotkey", "^(?=(.(?=[\0-r\[]*((?<=\.).))))(?:[c-\x73]{2,8}(\S))+((2)|\b[^\2-]){2}\D++$", "$u3$1$3$4$2") |
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daonlyfreez
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 744 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I guess either the Wiki, or a specific Forum for "ready" scripts would be useful. Determining what the uniform requirements should be, is probably the hardest part.
Maybe:
- Script should have a uniform naming-convention
- Script should be easy to include
- Script should have documentation
- Script should have screenshot
Good idea, btw. (I voted "Yes")  _________________ (sorry, homesite offline atm) |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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2Titan
When I say templates, I mean any form of automatic organisation - what will implement it isn't important. I use term template as it seems appropriate without having to change forum code. But any way will do, even something not within forum but easily reachable over it. Database can be useful, especialy for advanced searching (for this to work the best, user will have to specify keywords). As Chris doesn't wont to lose time for supportive things its probably the best for some of us to take things into action.
| Quote: | - Script should have a uniform naming-convention
- Script should be easy to include
- Script should have documentation
- Script should have screenshot |
Idealy yes. If I am the one to moderate such things, scripts will have all that or they will not be included. Period. If that makes scripts posting cut to half fine - other half will be much better then current hole.
However this is very similar to what StdLib should be, except more general - not all scripts that are good, selfcontained and esasily includable should be in the StdLib, just those of common interest.
On the other hand, this is exactly the same to what UserLib should become - collection of scripts that user can handle the same way as StdLib but as he sees fit (about Stdlib and UserLib , those from Developers forum will know). Ulitimatevely scripts that are modules/functions should be easily copied to UserLib folder and used as such without further changes. User should be able to browse only functions/modules (one of the mandatory template information - is the script to be used as includable peace of code, or as a utility per se). For utilities, demands should be much lower. For functions/modules demands should be high (documentation, examples, version, keywords, and such)
I prefer to be "officialy supported" as some ppl only respect what Chris has to say about anything. _________________
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Chris Site Admin
Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 10467
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm generally opposed to adding rules about how things must be posted. I think that would discourage people from posting. However, a template that guides you through the posting process would probably be worthwhile. Even more worthwhile might be some kind of system that separates the top 10 to 20% of scripts from the rest, perhaps via some kind of ranking or voting system (which has been discussed in the topic Customize the Forum to Help the Posting of Scripts).
Such improvements require someone to find and install the necessary software, or write it themselves. To date, no one has expressed any serious interest in that. If no one volunteers, I hope to get to it someday. |
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majkinetor
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 3615 Location: Belgrade
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Even more worthwhile might be some kind of system that separates the top 10 to 20% of scripts from the rest, perhaps via some kind of ranking or voting system |
This is totaly bad. So scripts like "mute the volume with middle mouse button" would always be above scripts like "HexView" or "CMDRet" which I find ridiculous. If voting is going to be a measure of goodnes, I will stop contributing here asap as I don't want Eurovision in my programing life.
Actually, Titan's idea is probably the best - having db accessible only via Web interface so advanced things can be done like sorting the scripts per post date, creator, keyword, voting can come here too, but just as a sort feature, not like recomendation of any kind.
Of course, effort will be good only if you support it (via some official mechanism - stickies, links on important places etc) _________________
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