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Security Considerations

 
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Markus



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject: Security Considerations Reply with quote

Hi all,

I've read about AHK in a computer magazine and decided that it's exactly what I need for automating my daily administrator's business. However, we are wary of unwanted uses of this tool, particularly keylogging.

So before I start wetting my appetite, I want to know if there are any possibilities to prevent such uses of AHK (i.e. recompiling without some commands) without making AHK unusable.

Regards,
Markus
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BoBo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Da AutoHotkey Open Source ist, steht es dir (AFAIK) frei eine "abgespeckte" Version für eure internen Zwecke zu kompilieren.

Extrahieren von Kommandos wie (z.B. Input) sollte proplemlos möglich sein. Unter Vorbehalt (erwarte das Chris dies bestätigt) sag ich mal: Guten Appetit Laughing
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Andi



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Germany, Niestetal

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great, when the download section of autohotkey also would offer a "security version" of ahk, without the problematic parts.

A normal user (like me Sad ) is not able to compile such a "security version".

I think there are many people (also like me Very Happy )who wants to benefit of ahk's advantages at work.
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Invalid User



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Texas, Usa

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AHK scripts can be made into .exe with passwords built into them. Ahk can be installed on one PC and the .exe can be distibuted to the other pcs, I dont think this is really what you want but its my first thought of the workaround.
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Rajat



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 1718

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

most keyloggers r coded in C++, asm, or (rarely) delphi... but these languages don't become subjects of security concerns, do they?

what matters is the use u put it to... u make a script just to show a tooltip and that's just what it'd do. it won't send ur passwords to me or Chris!
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Last edited by Rajat on Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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melic
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing might be good is a default override key.
say a user incorrectly codes a script placed in StartUp with a block function and the code does not end properly although it is "coded" correctly as far as ahk is concerned. the system would boot up and get hung up on a block, with no mouse and or key control.
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Chris
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 10467

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If BlockInput ever gets stuck on due to a bug in the script, you can press Ctrl-Alt-Del to get out of it.
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Andi



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Germany, Niestetal

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Invalid User

Building a .exe is a way, but before I built it, I have to develop the script by starting autohotkey.exe... and this is done mostly on the machine, where the script should run later.


@Rajat

I don't believe, that you're collecting passwords....not a man like you!! Smile
But I think that the IT-Security-Experts in our firm would find it problematic, when the keyboard is logged. So when a user is leaving his workstation and forgets to reload or exit ahk after entering a password an other user could read everything with the built in "key history and script info" function.

I've got a notion that my suggestion to install ahk would shoot down
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jonny



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 3004
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... well then, their fears are unfounded. AHK is open-source. Any supposed "security concerns" would quickly be found by a proficient C++ prorammer browsing Chris' code, and I might note that there have been at least a few people like this I've seen. An interesting tidbit here is an issue that cropped up more than a year ago, when AHK was still in beta. Here's a quote from the archives of the changelog:

Quote:
Changed the KeyLog command:
  • In an effort to prevent AutoHotkey from becoming branded a key logger or trojan by various security firms and their software -- after which it might be very difficult to "un-brand" it -- the ability to log to a file has been disabled. A version with that feature is available upon request, or you can compile it yourself with that section enabled.
  • Renamed the command to be KeyHistory to avoid even the appearance of supporting malicious use. Please change your scripts accordingly.
  • Improved the command so that it also displays the info that only the log file used to show: elapsed time between keystrokes and the target window's title.


If your IT people need convincing, casually mention that it's open-source and they are perfectly welcome to look at the code themselves to determine if it's malicious. Very Happy

Also, I found a slight logical error in your reasoning here:

Quote:
Building a .exe is a way, but before I built it, I have to develop the script by starting autohotkey.exe... and this is done mostly on the machine, where the script should run later.


By this, you assume that building an .exe of your own is "safer" than running a script under the interpreter. If Chris were indeed a cracker, though, what would stop him from infecting Ahk2Exe as well as AutoHotkey.exe? Question
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Andi



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Germany, Niestetal

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there you're right. But what I wrote applies to what Invalid User said:

Quote:
Ahk can be installed on one PC and the .exe can be distibuted to the other pcs, I dont think this is really what you want but its my first thought of the workaround.


...at least the compiled .exe excludes, that other users who have accession to the PC, could read the key history.
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Invalid User



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Texas, Usa

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know....ppl wont look for somthing they dont know is there, unless they have bad intent. you could always hide AHK deep.
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jonny



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 3004
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm missing something; what are the exact concerns here? I'm not quite sure I understand what the "security issues" are in this context.
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Serenity



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 1025

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Markus, the original poster, was concerned with AutoHotkey having keylogging capabilities.
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