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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: Script attribution etiquette, copyright and licensing issues |
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[Mod note: split from HTMLText 1.01 - Write HTML style text to a GUI]
| tic wrote: | | I know people hate me taking functions out of the standard library etc... but I just cant help it. I hate to include all that code when its not needed |
Don't do this. I'm really feeling bad to see my codes treated like this. |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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yes, sorry i didnt mean example.
I would really like to create a function using that method, and just adding some extra stuff in to make it easier and neater to use, and add some of my own optimisations as it is too slow, but I wouldnt want to upset the author of the code.
So I have 2 choices. I can either continue it and not share it, or go back to the way I was writing it and try and give it the same functionality over time.
I had made a small breakthrough before when I found a good way to wrap, so will continue to work with that. I wil then add the ability to specify sizes and fix a small bug at the moment where text isnt positioned at the correct y coordinate.
I couldnt possibly include 2 files, at 21kb and 6kb, when only 6kb of the total 27kb is needed. I would have to remove the necessary functions. It seems kind of crazy to create some functions and then limit how poeple can use them, especially if it is being used to create new functions and help the community.
I freely say that anyone can use any of my functions in any way they want as long as they credit me. |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| This is one of the reasons, main reason in fact, why I seldom read other member's scripts, usually just glancing at them: to avoid confusing other member's works to be my own ones. I can swear I've never done to simply copy and paste other member's codes without mentioning at all, at least consciously. I don't really know why I'm so keen to originality etc for public scripts, and I'm well aware also that many ideas are from other sources. I guess I acquired it from my background. |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| tic wrote: | | I freely say that anyone can use any of my functions in any way they want as long as they credit me. |
Don't distort the thing. I've never seen you credited the authors inside the scripts. IMO, you have to clarify which part is your own codes and which part is to be copied from other scripts. |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In my tests, the function took around 250ms to complete. ~100ms of that was spent in IE_Move(), since it uses WinMove (the default WinDelay is 100ms.) |
Yes I see it. I added:
into the IE_Move function, which gave a lot faster time, but still not nearly comparable to how I was doing it (but then it does give a lot extra functionality)
| Quote: | | This is one of the reasons, main reason in fact, why I seldom read other member's scripts, usually just glancing at them: to avoid confusing other member's works to be my own ones. |
I think thats madness. This is an opensource language and on the forum where people help each other. If no-one ever learnt from anyone else we would get nowhere. I find it sad that I cant use the standard library freely (surely thats what its there for). I have written functions in the past that use parts from the standard library and been hesitant to release them as you may get annoyed. So many scripts and functions may not be released because people cant use the standard library. I know that I could not use it if I have to include the whole thing. I like to keep my code simple, neat and easy to use.
I wouldnt want to be forced to include 98 functions in my script if i only needed to use 1 of them. 1 of the reasons I use ahk is because of the nice and simple syntax to give short code, wheras if I had to include a 100 unused functions then that would defeat my purpose for using ahk.
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Don't distort the thing. I've never seen you credited the authors inside the scripts |
No. I do not credit inside my scripts. that is not the place for it. the script is for coding. I credit the people in my post. ahk is used for simple and short code, not for crediting |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| tic wrote: | | No. I do not credit inside my scripts. that is not the place for it. |
What makes you think that's enough credits for other authors, especially when large portion of the script are from other ones? Anyway, I'm now sure you'll never copy my codes. |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I have always credited everyone I can think of in my post for a script/function, and have only once I think credited a person inside the code, and that was only because it would help me to remember where I got it.
I think its egotistical for a person to need their name mentioned over and over again. The only reason I'd want credit in a post is for the person to give me a "thanks", not because I need everyone to know my name. I like the spirit of the ahk forums. Giving. Dont be so concerned about getting loads of credit. A simple thanks should suffice. I mean Lexikos has helped me more times than I can count, and I truly am thankful to him, but he doesnt ask me to scrawl all over my scripts "Lexikos woz 'ere 07" |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tic wrote: | | I think its egotistical for a person to need their name mentioned over and over again. |
I think I did similar things to some other members too. Although it might appear the same, they were actually requests, except in the case of you. I'm now suspecting those kind of behaviors, not usual with me, were started from you. Why am I feeling furious only when I found my codes used in your scripts? I may better stop posting scripts any more. As a matter of fact, I do less and less recently.
Last edited by Sean on Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Laszlo
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 3959
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Again: a moderator could separate the discussions about giving credit in the proper form, to the General Chat area. In case someone wants to use any of my code posted to this Forum: it is free, I don’t need any credit (although giving credit somewhere is the right thing to do), you can even sell it under your name. I assumed everybody thinks the same way, but obviously not, so we have to respect the copyright of the original author. Maybe, the authors could write their requests directly in their code, something like: “you can use this piece of code in any non-profit project, as long as the author of every function is properly identified”. |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Laszlo wrote: | | it is free, I don’t need any credit (although giving credit somewhere is the right thing to do), you can even sell it under your name. I assumed everybody thinks the same way, but obviously not, so we have to respect the copyright of the original author. Maybe, the authors could write their requests directly in their code, something like: “you can use this piece of code in any non-profit project, as long as the author of every function is properly identified”. |
If there is anything you want to say to me, just do it directly to me. You don't have to be sarcastic or distort the point. I never said to put credit on each function. In this case, it's simple. Adding one line would be enough at the start of the part copied from other scripts. I don't know why he ignores to do it: consciously or unconsciously?
Last edited by Sean on Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ahklerner wrote: | | Happy holidays everyone |
 happy holidays
| Quote: | | I don’t need any credit (although giving credit somewhere is the right thing to do), you can even sell it under your name. I assumed everybody thinks the same way, but obviously not, so we have to respect the copyright of the original author. |
I agree. As per Sean's request, as I have previously stated, I will not be using his functions as it is his right to not want his code spliced.
I assumed incorrectly that others were like me. For anyone listening, anyone can use any part of my code for anything and all I would like (not need) is for them in their post to say thank you. If I dont want others to use it, I will compile it to exe.
| Quote: | | Why am I feeling furious only when I found my codes used in your scripts? |
I have no idea why you'd be furious, but for all your scripts you should go back through and clearly state that nobody can use them unless they acknowledge you in their script for every line they use and that no part can be modified. That way nobody has any excuse if you are displeased.
You must realise Sean that most people on these forums do not have the same ideals as you. From what I have seen, most people are happy with a simple thank you. Ive undertaken massive projects before for just a simple thank you.
I now know your stance on this issue and will respect it, but I fear this will greatly hinder the autohotkey community (not me) if you do this, as then new functions cannot be created that use your code. Sure I can make a function that uses them, but I cannot share it. So in the end the individual with enough knowledge is fine, but the community suffers. |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Sean, I dont think Laszlo was being sarcastic. I think he was genuinly saying that it is your right....because it is
| Quote: | | Adding one line would be enough at the start of the part copied from other scripts. I don't know why he ignores to do it: consciously or unconsciously? |
I did it consciously because I had not read anywhere that you wanted me to write credit to you in my script |
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Sean
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tic wrote: | | I now know your stance on this issue and will respect it, but I fear this will greatly hinder the autohotkey community (not me) if you do this, as then new functions cannot be created that use your code. Sure I can make a function that uses them, but I cannot share it. So in the end the individual with enough knowledge is fine, but the community suffers. |
Why? Just adding one line comment is that hard? And, it's only when posting the codes to the forum. Although I've been becoming against for profit use, I actually don't care much about it. |
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Laszlo
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 3959
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| There was nothing sarcastic intended. The discussions belong to the general chat area. Adding a copyright note to every function (or block of functions) was a serious suggestion: how would one otherwise know the wishes of the author? In any case, it is not going to be pretty. Some algorithms are independently re-discovered, and there will be arguments. Or, you can include a general acknowledgment for everyone, who might have something related posted. It becomes then meaningless… |
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tic
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I am completely fine with adding in a single line comment at the top devoted to giving credit. ie
| Code: | | ;Thank you Lexikos for alpha blending help. Thanks to Laszlo for his binary write machine code..... |
But if I get more specific than that then it begins to break down, as I often will take only the necessary parts from someone elses help and in time will actually change that code to improve it, and one part from a function can then be modified and broken up over the new function.
It is a viable suggestion for me to give credit at the top of my scripts as well as in the post, so I will do so in future to appease everyone.
One thing I will never do is include unneccesary code, or continually comment. These would hinder my ability to help the community. |
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