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BoBo¨
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is the increased spam experienced by the forum (which requires cleanup)
Shocked I've reduced my number of statements/postings - so what the hell s/he's talking about Laughing
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fhu
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FStbolt wrote:
Aye lock bah! Laughing Shocked

Mod is also short for Modulator, a Federal Signal tornado siren.
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jaco0646



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 666
Location: MN, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuncay wrote:
I respect that moderators wants to be anonymous, if they want to be. We have the right to act anonymous. Why they should not?
Unlike average users, Mods have a job on the forum; and to that extent AHK is not just a hobby for them. Their job is to enforce standards for the collective good of the "forum community," so they are given more power than average users. With more power comes more responsibility. Being open and honest about how that power is used assures the community that this responsibility is in good hands, and the power is not being abused.

Tuncay wrote:
If the mod does his job, then there is no reason to show his face.
...and what if, hypothetically, the Mod does not do his job? Then there is reason to show his face? Ironically, you provide a good example.
Tuncay wrote:
is there any reason why the quote-thread was closed?
Perhaps if you knew the nic of the Mod who locked it, you could ask him. It sounds like several other users would like to do the same. Unfortunately, the secrecy inherent to the current process forces you (and others) to blindly look for an answer in a completely unrelated thread.

Corporations are proud to put their names on their products. Authors are proud to put their names on their literature. Chris Mallett is proud to put his name on his software. Why do Mods not stand behind their work? In many cases, what the Mods do is effectively censorship. When governments engage in such activity (e.g. China), the whole world gets angry. Why does AHK employ a similar policy?

In closing, I think a good example to illustrate my point is the recent spat between U.S. senators Clinton and Obama over publicizing their respective tax returns. They (like all Americans) have the right to keep this information private; but in seeking more power and responsibility in a democratic nation, it is a show of good faith (i.e. being open and honest), which assures the community that this responsibility is in good hands, and the power is not being abused.
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Laszlo



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 4078
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, some of us have proof that at least one moderator abuses his power. It is subjective what constitutes spam, what is of bad taste, etc., so there will always be disagreement. Nevertheless, silently changing already posted messages and hiding behind other user names made me and others uncomfortable in the Forum. I cannot be sure if my posts will not be altered or removed, so until this moderator surrenders his privileges I cut back my activities here.
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Undercover Mod
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No moderator here gets paid for what they do as it is all voluntary, therefore you cannot call it a job. Moving or deleting posts can cause in retaliation by those who have failed to understand the rules; such cases (though admittedly seldom) have been known to manifest in the form of personal attacks that perpetuate conflicts of interests. Working behind the scenes has the added effect of eradicating status symbols which reduces any feeling of jealousy or tension. Evidently, anonymity for us is a good thing.

I disagree with the notion to cast our activity as censorship. We are regular users such as yourselves and get frustrated by spam or topics posted in the wrong section - only difference is that we get to fix these problems. No emotions are involved; we have just been appointed to help keep this place a pleasant experience for everyone. Point besides, the following clause was clearly mentioned in the terms and conditions for account registration here: "You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit."
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[VxE]



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1494

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can attest to the fact that personal attacks are possible in the BBS environment. Although such attacks are always laughably impotent, I can understand why the mods would want to avoid the trouble of ignoring them.

It's interesting that Laszlo mentions a 'rogue mod'. To quote a TV show called "The Office": "I've never seen so little power go to someone's head before."

@jaco0646: As I understand it, it is not the average users' responsibility to hold mods accountable for what they do, therefore, it is not logically valid to base an argument on such a premise. You would do better to argue for moderator openness based on 'common courtesy' or 'effect on the community's reputation'. Using such a basis would likely be more effective.
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jaco0646



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 666
Location: MN, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undercover Mod wrote:
the following clause was clearly mentioned in the terms and conditions for account registration here: "You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit."
I absolutely agree with this statement. It says nothing about anonymity.

Undercover Mod wrote:
No moderator here gets paid for what they do as it is all voluntary, therefore you cannot call it a job.
Most American employees are considered voluntary, under Employment at Will. Regardless, I strongly disagree with the implication that a lack of pay excuses irresponsible behavior. If any Mod feels he must be compensated for his efforts on the forum I encourage him to relinquish his title in favor of someone who wants to voluntarily do the job.

Undercover Mod wrote:
Moving or deleting posts can cause in retaliation by those who have failed to understand the rules; such cases (though admittedly seldom) have been known to manifest in the form of personal attacks
This is unfortunate, but it is also part of the responsibility that comes along with power. People in power are always hated by some. I am glad to hear that such instances seldomly occur in the AHK community. Again, if any Mod feels he must be universally loved for his efforts on the forum I encourage him to relinquish his title in favor of someone who will voluntarily weather the storm.

Undercover Mod wrote:
Working behind the scenes has the added effect of eradicating status symbols which reduces any feeling of jealousy or tension. Evidently, anonymity for us is a good thing.
The first sentence makes an interesting point, but it still falls under the category of responsibility that comes along with power. As much as the President (and presidential-hopefuls) might campaign to convince the public that they are just ordinary people, the fact is that being President (or a Mod) makes you different than ordinary people; because only a very small percentage of the community is President (or a Mod). I do not see how that one statement makes it evident that anonymity for Mods is a good thing.

Undercover Mod wrote:
I disagree with the notion to cast our activity as censorship.
Censorship - I'm not sure how you can say that none of a Mod's work falls under this category. Note that censorship is not always a bad thing, and even democracies that advocate freedom of speech engage in limited censorship (e.g. child pornography); BUT they do not try to hide these activities behind a shield of anonymity. You can easily discover law enforcement agencies tasked with removing child pornography, and I think they would be happy to explain who does it why they censor the material they do.

Undercover Mod wrote:
we have just been appointed to help keep this place a pleasant experience for everyone.
Thank you for all that you do for the community. Your work definitely enhances my AHK experience. Please don't be shy to take credit for your work, and let us know what you're doing.
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mai9



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Barcelona, Catalonia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuncay wrote:
Exclamation Hello mai9. Are you not from the PortableApps community??? I am using always Portable Firefox, and I think to remember that name. Welcome. Smile

yes, that's me Smile

thanks for noticing Smile
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jaco0646



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 666
Location: MN, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[VxE] wrote:
it is not the average users' responsibility to hold mods accountable for what they do
I think the analogy of the AHK forum (or any forum) as a community is very apt, and in any community I believe it is the members' responsibility to hold those in power to the standards of the community. In the case of AHK, one of the highest standards is openness, exemplified by the openness of its source code. VxE, I'm a bit disturbed by the authoritarian tone of that statement. It reminds me of Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men." In any case, since the Mods, "have just been appointed to help keep this place a pleasant experience for everyone," shouldn't everyone have a voice in how the Mods do that?

[VxE] wrote:
You would do better to argue for moderator openness based on 'common courtesy'
Although not explicitly stated, I think this is already incorporated into my argument, and is really the same thing as serving the average users.
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engunneer



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 6847
Location: Pacific Northwest, US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on sabbatical, but I was fairly sure that most people had a general idea of who the Mods are. I am a Mod. I choose to remove my name from the "logged in users" list on the front page because it was generating 1-3 questions a DAY via PM. Those people sending me questions are better served to post in Ask for Help, since they are more likely to get a faster, smarter reply. Many of the PMs are just to tell me to look at a topic (At the time, I read EVERY new post almost daily)

I will also note that Mods have no additional power as far as user settings go (Like putting a title under our name, or using avatars)

When appropriate, I will reply to a thread that I have moderated to let the person know why I moderated it. We also had a bunch of users complaining about topic replies like "Please use code tags", so I tend not to reply in those cases.

At one point, you could tell which Mod edited a post by the formatting of the note they left. I tend to use the following style:

[Moderator's Note: This is just a test]

It may or may not be in italics, depending on my memory that day.

I leave it to other Mods to point themselves out, since it is not my right to point to them.
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Moderator!!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

engunneer wrote:
I leave it to other Mods to point themselves out, since it is not my right to point to them.


thanks.

i would rather spend my time on moderation instead of answering this topic.
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jaco0646



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 666
Location: MN, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

engunneer wrote:
I've been on sabbatical
Welcome back! Thank you for your reply (and for not being afraid to log in and post it). I like your attitude. Cool
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imapow



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Trøndelag, Norway

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the mods' are like a secret police llike Gestapo ore NSA Question
sounds scary.
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black ops mod
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imapow wrote:
so the mods' are like a secret police llike Gestapo ore NSA


that's correct...




you are being monitored
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
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