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AHKnow
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 118
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: Re: AutoHotkey vs. AutoIt? |
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| Ace_NoOne wrote: | Hey guys,
I just got a weird reply over at the PSPad forums:
| Angel wrote: | If you use AutoHotKey you might want to have a look at AutoIt, which is the original scripting language in which AutoHotKey was based. It is much more powerful than AutoHotKey (you can even create GUI programs, which can be compiled, it can also create COM objects, has Regular Expression capabilities and more). It also has a nicer syntax!
Do some research and you'll find out that AutoHotKey actually "borrowed" most of its source code from an older version of AutoIt.
Check it at: www.autoitscript.com
You will not regret giving it a try!
Cheers,
Angel |
That sounds a little hostile towards AHK!? I've never worked with AutoIt, but from what I'd read here and there, I somehow thought that AHK was more like AutoIt v2.0...
Could someone please clear this up for me? |
My understanding of the situation of AutoHotkey versus AutoIt is as follows:
1. Sometime after AutoIt version 2, the author had stopped developing it. Later he decided to continue development of AutoIt and came out with AutoIt 3, but there was a significant amount of time where AutoIt users did not know what was going on and everybody was under the impression that the AutoIt project had stopped.
I remember this period of time, because it was when I first heard about AutoIt and became interested. It was then that I saw information about how AutoIt was not being developed anymore.
2. I believe AutoHotkey was developed in the period of time when it was believed AutoIt version 2 had stopped development and there was no version 3. Also, the idea of focusing on "hot keys" was presented to AutoIt developers but nobody responded to the idea at the time.
3. The AutoIt version 3 source code was initially OPEN source. Edit - AutoIt version 2 source code appears to have been only available by request, but if the AutoIt version 2 license was GPL than it is still considered OPEN source even if the author tries to hide or make it hard to get the source.
4. AutoHotkey came out BEFORE AutoIt version 3. One of the points of AutoHotkey was to create another open source automation project for AutoIt version 2 users, since there was NO version 3 yet.
5. Initially, many members of AutoIt (including its author) endorsed, supported, or recommended AutoHotkey to AutoIt version 2 users.
This is why, initially, there was a free flow exchange of information and ideas between the projects.
But, when the author and co. decided to go back to developing AutoIt and came out with version 3, it was then that things slowly got hostile. As time went by the author of AutoIt and various other developers of it took issue with AutoHotkey.
Now, its kind of like a "minor war" between the 2 projects, but if you saw how it was in the beginning you realize that the projects started in a state of peace and co-existence.
6. The exchange of ideas and information between AutoIt and AutoHotkey was not just one direction. Arguably the idea of adding hot key support came first with AutoHotkey and the idea was "copied" by the AutoIt developers.
Also, a lot of the syntax and ideas used originally by AutoIt came from ScriptIt. ScriptIt was a Microsoft project based on WinBatch (another and older automation program).
So as far as I'm concerned the "real" granddaddy is WinBatch or arguably ScriptIt. AutoIt is a "step-child" of ScriptIt, but since many of us don't hold that against AutoIt, I argue we should not hold this type of thing against AutoHotkey or FBSL ( Free Basic Script Language (another scripting language inspired by AutoIt)).
7. AutoHotkey can do about anything you can do with AutoIt and the opposite is true too.
I think there is plenty of room for both scripting languages and I've used both. I really think its a matter of preference for which one you like.
Some people like Coke and some like Pepsi...
EDIT:
To clarify the point about AutoHotkey versus Autoit version 3. AutoHotkey came out before the offical release of AutoIt version 3, but AutoIt version 3 Alpha or Beta was out before AutoHotkey's offical release. But, the AutoHotkey project appears to have started before the AutoIt version 3 Beta had started.
Last edited by AHKnow on Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:37 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Lar
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Heya AutoHotkey'ers... Just catching up on the forum here and just in time, I spose...
- AutoIt2 was never open source
- AutoIt3 source was available before AutoHotkey existed
- NO source of ScriptIt was used for AutoIt2
- ALOT of source of AutoIt3 was used to start AutoHotkey
- The AutoIt3 developers became frustrated with the leeching of source from AutoIt3 without any meaningful contribution...
- AutoHotkey IS the stepchild of AutoIt3 and that is nothing short of truth
I appreciate software developers, because I know of the difficulties... I appreciate that Chris develops a free product... but, I do not appreciate all of the smoke being blown up everybody's ass... My response here is only out of fear that people will repeat the nonsense I have read so many times that it will become believable...
BTW... when AutoIt3 beta is released, I undoubtedly believe it will handle Global Hooking and Callback functions... there is something for yall to aspire to... good luck. |
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AHKnow
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: |
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First off, AutoHotkey was out before I ever saw any version of AutoIt version 3 come out.
Back then, the AutoIt author allowed people access to AutoIt's source code and it was not "closed source" as it is now.
Even if AutoIt3's source code was out before AutoHotkey, it would have to be given to Chris by AutoIt's author or have been available for download.
Nobody from the AutoIt developer team (from what I've seen) has ever claimed that AutoHotkey "stole" any source code from them. The issue has always been if the AutoIt developers were given credit. Again Chris has given AutoIt developers credit in the AutoHotkey help files and source code. Unfortunately, certain people from the AutoIt side felt it was not enough.
But it is for the REAL AutoIt author and developers to decide if Chris has given them enough credit and not for some angry AutoIt user or troublemaker. I'm very sure that if there was really a problem that AutoIt's author or members of his development team would personally contact Chris.
It is as plain as day that AutoIt's syntax and the idea came from ScriptIt. Nobody claimed that AutoIt's author took any source code from ScriptIt or WinBatch, I was talking about the syntax and concept.
Command comparison between AutoIt and ScriptIt ( http://tiger.la.asu.edu/Quick_Ref/AutoIt_quickref.pdf )
Last edited by AHKnow on Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 10480
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I agree with most of what was said in the last 3 posts (though there are some exaggerations and minor inaccuracies). If anyone wants my point of view, here are some links and info:
1) As I said earlier in this topic, the core framework of AutoHotkey.exe (syntax, parsing, variables, etc.) was written from scratch without the use of source code from other projects. However, it does use AutoIt v3 code to implement about 40 commands, the complete list of which is at http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19710#19710
By contrast, the following external utilities distributed with AutoHotkey are 99% the work of the AutoIt authors Jon and Larry: ahk2exe, AutoScriptWriter, and Window Spy.
2) The following link contains some of the history behind AutoHotkey and AutoIt, and explains why I decided to create AutoHotkey in the first place: http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20176#20176 |
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PhiLho
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 6721
Location: France (near Paris)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Lar wrote: | | - The AutoIt3 developers became frustrated with the leeching of source from AutoIt3 without any meaningful contribution... |
I don't agree with the wording, here.
AFAIK, the source of AutoIt3 was GPL at the time.
Using it is not "leeching", it is just complying to the GPL licence, which just allows this.
"without any meaningful contribution"? That doesn't make sense. I suppose Chris focussed on developping his program, "giving back" code (like "hey, look what I have done!" in some forum?) is problably a waste of time (possible reaction: "And so?") and according to the GPL terms, Chris' source is and was (probably) always available since the first release. So, his developments could be "contributed" to AutoIt just by a look at his sources.
Note that this kind of resentment against the authors of a schism (developping a new code branch, often because of diverging views on future of software) isn't recent, and still happen. A notorious example is the schism of Mambo code to the Joomla branch (PHP CMS (content management system) softwares).
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i542
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Hmm. |
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| JSLover wrote: | | PhiLho wrote: | | One choice criterion could be taste in language |
...I hate that AU3 is too much like Basic...While...Wend's piss me off...they don't even have a Loop { } command (I don't think they have blocks { } either) (their Break, isn't even Break, it's some other dumb thing about not LETTING the USER close the script {fishy!})...you gotta pick For...Next (which is ok in JavaScript {& only called a for loop}, but horrid in Basic/AU3), Do...Until (um? Loop/if/break anyone?) or While...Wend (ick!)...& then there's the fact they WERE open source...& then closed the door? fishy! fishy! From what I've heard...the forums aren't friendly & they (forum users/AU3 devs or both {not sure}) treat Chris as if he STOLE the code & made AHK...open source means he can "STEAL" it...(it's not stealing). I wasn't able to find any mention of it having been open source (on their site)...or the code to the old version...? |
None of sayed is true.
While, Wned can't piss nobody off, it is just SIMPLE. Loop { } command is unneeded because of 3 more loops. No, no { } blocks, but Next, Wend, EndSelect etc. Since AutoIt has TRAY icon managment, if you don't hide, you may remove the Exit Script command from the icon. We have EXIT. Forums ARE friendly (let me guess - you heard that from the guy who calls himself Guido, browse a little), AutoIt was never OpenSource but freeware with source on-line if somebody wants to study it or help, so chris did NO work at all: he copyed all the code, removed or renamed functions, added two more for it to look as new language.
Yes, AutoIt rulez.
AUTOHOTKEY BURRYED. |
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daonlyfreez
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 755
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Don't want to throw fuel on this "flame-war", but this is simply not true:
| Quote: | | AutoIt was never OpenSource but freeware with source on-line if somebody wants to study it or help, so chris did NO work at all: he copyed all the code, removed or renamed functions, added two more for it to look as new language. |
This subject has been discussed ad nauseam already though.
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i542
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think so, daonlyfreez.
So, when you pals sayed "the forum is pretty whatever", I did a little research.
On this forum:
registered: ~ 5500 users, online ~ 55
On AutoIt Forums:
registered ~ 21 000 users, online ~ 500 |
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Ace_NoOne
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Chris, close this topic, please.
No use for a silly flamewar. Everyone just use what they feel most comfortable with.
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Join the AutoHotkey IRC channel: irc.freenode.net #autohotkey |
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i542
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: illegal |
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| Quote: | Author : Jonathan Bennett
WWW : http://www.hiddensoft.com/AutoIt/
Email : support@hiddensoft.com
________________________________________________________
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THIS SOFTWARE
Important - read carefully:
This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
between you (either an individual or a single entity) and the
mentioned author of this Software for the software product
identified above, which includes computer software and may
include associated media, printed materials, and "online"
or electronic documentation ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT").
By installing, copying, or otherwise using the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If you do not
agree to the terms of this EULA, do not install or use the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international
copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and
treaties. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed, not sold.
The definition of SOFTWARE PRODUCT includes any files generated by the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT, such as compiled script files in the form of
standalone executables.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
This EULA grants you the following rights:
Installation and Use. You may install and use an unlimited number of
copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute an
unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that
each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright
and trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy of this
EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may be distributed as a
standalone product or included with your own product.
Commercial Use. If the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is to be included in
a solution or product that will be sold for profit, you are required to
acknowledge in your product documentation and/or help files, that this
SOFTWARE PRODUCT was used. You are further required to provide
a link to the web homepage specified at the top of this EULA.
2. COPYRIGHT.
All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations,
video, audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT), the accompanying printed materials, and any
copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT are owned by the Author of this
Software. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws
and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material.
MISCELLANEOUS
If you acquired this product in the United Kingdom, this EULA is
governed by the laws of the United Kingdom.
If this product was acquired outside the United Kingdom, then local
law may apply.
Should you have any questions concerning this EULA, or if you desire
to contact the author of this Software for any reason, please contact
him/her at the email address mentioned at the top of this EULA.
LIMITED WARRANTY
NO WARRANTIES.
The Author of this Software expressly disclaims any warranty for
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT and any related
documentation is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind,
either express or implied, including, without limitation, the
implied warranties or merchantability, fitness for a particular
purpose, or noninfringement. The entire risk arising out of use
or performance of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT remains with you.
NO LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES.
In no event shall the author of this Software be liable for any
damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for
loss of business profits, business interruption, loss of business
information, or any other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use
of or inability to use this product, even if the Author of this
Software has been advised of the possibility of such damages.
Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion
or limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages,
the above limitation may not apply to you.
[END OF LICENSE]
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daonlyfreez
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 755
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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That is the licence of AutoIt v 3, after it became closed source/freeware... In the very beginning of AutoIt v 3, the code was open sourced, after that, it became closed source. The source of AutoIt v 2 (legacy) was never released.
Chris only used portions of the AutoIt v 3 open source code, the rest was coded from scratch.
Again, this subject has been discussed ad nauseam already. Open source is open source, and credit has been given, so there is no need to keep flaming because some apparently cannot stand it that there is a serious alternative to AutoIt available.
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Ace_NoOne
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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daonlyfreez, I appreciate your efforts to support Chris here, but please don't feed the troll.
Lass ihn labern...
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Improving my world, one script at a time.
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daonlyfreez
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 755
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Recht haste... 
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i542
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| daonlyfreez wrote: | That is the licence of AutoIt v 3, after it became closed source/freeware... In the very beginning of AutoIt v 3, the code was open sourced, after that, it became closed source. The source of AutoIt v 2 (legacy) was never released.
Chris only used portions of the AutoIt v 3 open source code, the rest was coded from scratch.
Again, this subject has been discussed ad nauseam already. Open source is open source, and credit has been given, so there is no need to keep flaming because some apparently cannot stand it that there is a serious alternative to AutoIt available. |
This is license of AutoIt v2.64
HA! GOTCHA! |
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daonlyfreez
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 755
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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One last reply:
| Quote: | | This is license of AutoIt v2.64 |
Well, might be you posted the licence of AutoIt 2, but:
| Quote: | | In the very beginning of AutoIt v 3, the code was open sourced, after that, it became closed source. ... The source of AutoIt v 2 (legacy) was never released. |
So, you still missed!
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