Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc
Posted: 26 May 2017, 06:15
As far as I know it's a full on no... but yes. We need to set something "in stone".
Let's help each other out
https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/
When a game wouldn't let me play...:sinkfaze wrote:Oh FFS, let's nitpick. Malware damages a computer. Pranks appear to damage a computer. "Cheats" do not damage a computer.nnnik wrote:Malware is not a physical thing so it cannot physically hurt PCs. Malware damages the software which may or may not result in physical damage in the PC. Whether the user thinks it is physically damaged or not does not make any difference.
And where can we find quotes from software manufacturers saying that about "cheats"? Have they come to us directly to make such a complaint?nnnik wrote:On another side ( going by your argument ) the software manifacturer that runs the server might think their servers have become "physically damaged".
So the capabilities of AHK are on the radar of cheat detection companies, and they haven't whitelisted the program. Though it appears it may only trigger if there's a keyboard hook installed by AHK.Hello there!
This is an automated response from the Support team of Wellbia Co., Ltd.
Hmm, seems like you have some troubleshooting issues with your game!
We’re sorry for your inconvenience.
Your xigncode.log sent to us has detected a third party program as the following;
C:\Program Files\AutoHotkey\AutoHotkey.exe
Yes, everyone can take steroids, so it's not cheating to use them in any sporting event.sinkfaze wrote:Why did you think the issue needed a solicitation of opinions in the first place? Are we rooting out the damage to "our reputation" for which there is no substantive proof is happening in the first place?tidbit wrote:I drew the line at the fact it has like 10 cheats in one. I asked for a bunch of opinions, many people agreed.
A "cheat" is by definition something that you do or have that your competition cannot do or have, which gives you an unfair advantage over them. If you're giving away that same advantage to your competition, how is that then "cheating"?tidbit wrote:Are you saying that if anyone can download an Autofire, Autoaim, No Recoil, AutoBhop, Disconnect from internet to peek around a corner then reconnect and kill - all-in-one script, it's not cheating? Because everyone can get it, therefore it's fair game.
You're right that it isn't anyone's job within the AHK community to be reading over TOS/EULAs. However, there is a a pretty general spirit of gameplay amongst competitive games and you can get a hunch for when something doesn't feel right. Those are the gray guidelines by which any policing done here should be.sinkfaze wrote:And it's not our job to go around reading the TOS/EULA of every game to see if somebody's script is in compliance. They can take their own chances.tidbit wrote:A cheat is what is determined in the TOS/EULA.
Do these gaming companies have us on the payroll to patrol our forums for them? I don't give away that kind of time, my time is for rent only.tidbit wrote:...if they say "no automating, botting, auto fire" or (whatever legal terms they use) and people use such tools, even if it's shared online on a small forum, it's a cheat.
That is exactly the point. I could care less how gaming companies feel about the subject. This is purely a matter of our organizations ethics. Do we as an organization/community find these types of implementations unsavory or not. Clearly we have more than one MOD that does and at least one mod that does not.Exaskryz wrote: As a community we need to figure out if we even want those types of requests here, let alone the code for cheating hosted on the forums.
I can provide an anecdotal data point, too:Exaskryz wrote:When a game wouldn't let me play...:
So the capabilities of AHK are on the radar of cheat detection companies, and they haven't whitelisted the program. Though it appears it may only trigger if there's a keyboard hook installed by AHK.Hello there!
This is an automated response from the Support team of Wellbia Co., Ltd.
Hmm, seems like you have some troubleshooting issues with your game!
We’re sorry for your inconvenience.
Your xigncode.log sent to us has detected a third party program as the following;
C:\Program Files\AutoHotkey\AutoHotkey.exe
But anecdotes are not data. Companies have no standard by which they all handle these issues; there's no reason for us to assume absolutist measures for non-absolute outcomes.bluce wrote:Nah, I doubt Valve will ever detect Autohotkey as a malicious program. Overwatch is what gets people banned for Autohotkey, and that rarely ever happens.Concerned_citizen wrote:I am wondering if it is possible to submit these cheats to Valve so that VAC could specifically target these scripts and ban their users. I think the time will soon come when they ban users of this and similar scripts (hopefully instead of targeting all of AutoHotkey). If that were possible I think it would be good for the community.
Valve always wants to avoid false-positives, which is why they won't ban Autohotkey since people use it for cheating.
Go ahead and send this to Valve if you want, do remember that Steam Support is shit though.
Then it sounds like you should be in support of a gaming company banning the use of an AHK exe while you're playing that particular game if it's not "fair", muh vibrancy script be damned.Exaskryz wrote:You're right that it isn't anyone's job within the AHK community to be reading over TOS/EULAs. However, there is a a pretty general spirit of gameplay amongst competitive games and you can get a hunch for when something doesn't feel right.
No, because we aren't partnered or otherwise involved with those gaming companies any more than we're partnered or otherwise involved with the person who creates cheat scripts. We're here to support good programming in AHK so long as it's not malicious (or seemingly so) in intent. I don't think any of you were even here to know how beneficial programmers who originally used AHK to automate online poker gaming were to advancing AHK along the line in the early days. Not all of those programmers were, no, but the fact that they were welcomed here welcomed advances in AHK. You cut off the opportunities for user creativity and you cut off your nose to spite your face.Exaskryz wrote:Those are the gray guidelines by which any policing done here should be.
Technically, yes. While I hate having to shut down my AHK scripts, that are on a different windows account than the one I'm playing my game on, I do agree that gaming companies can ban you for using AHK scripts no matter if they are meant to cheat in a game or not. That's a really cool script you linked to, and it showcases why we should still support scripting in gaming and it is one of the examples to provide to people who ask "If the forums aren't for cheats, then what is left to share for gaming scripts??"sinkfaze wrote:Then it sounds like you should be in support of a gaming company banning the use of an AHK exe while you're playing that particular game if it's not "fair", muh vibrancy script be damned.Exaskryz wrote:You're right that it isn't anyone's job within the AHK community to be reading over TOS/EULAs. However, there is a a pretty general spirit of gameplay amongst competitive games and you can get a hunch for when something doesn't feel right.
And we're in disagreement about what is malicious.sinkfaze wrote:No, because we aren't partnered or otherwise involved with those gaming companies any more than we're partnered or otherwise involved with the person who creates cheat scripts. We're here to support good programming in AHK so long as it's not malicious (or seemingly so) in intent. I don't think any of you were even here to know how beneficial programmers who originally used AHK to automate online poker gaming were to advancing AHK along the line in the early days. Not all of those programmers were, no, but the fact that they were welcomed here welcomed advances in AHK. You cut off the opportunities for user creativity and you cut off your nose to spite your face.Exaskryz wrote:Those are the gray guidelines by which any policing done here should be.
Ok. Okokokok.sinkfaze wrote:muh vibrancy script be damned
Thanks for the kind words, and I agree with what you said.Exaskryz wrote:That's a really cool script you linked to, and it showcases why we should still support scripting in gaming and it is one of the examples to provide to people who ask "If the forums aren't for cheats, then what is left to share for gaming scripts??"
tank wrote:This is purely a matter of our organizations ethics. Do we as an organization/community find these types of implementations unsavory or not. Clearly we have more than one MOD that does and at least one mod that does not.
Why do you refuse to do it?Run1e wrote:In all seriousness, I think the people in the LLC should step up and make a decision to allow cheats or not so we don't have to be in this weird in-between.
I think you of all people are quite clear on my views here. but i promised not to be poly and make unilateral decisions. there is no harm in letting the debate go to a fruitful conclusion. Joe has said he is going to start up some documented rules and such. I think we have only one serious detractor herejust me wrote:Why do you refuse to do it?
The ethical "line in the sand" for me is when scripts give a competitive advantage to a user vs a human opponent.joedf wrote:what is to be allowed and what is not.
If a script offers an online advantage despite any intent by the poster, then it shouldn't be posted, even if it's meant to make the offline mode easier or something.nnnik wrote:What about games that can be played both locally and online?
What about games where we don't know whether it's an unfair advantage or not?
To be clear, I was only suggesting that a mod should lock a thread if it is obviously violating the rules. This also allows debate among the mods and the decision can be overturned.For games that are unknown, judgment should be reserved. If it gets a report from someone who thinks it is breaking the rules, then it may take a bit of research to try to understand the game, and then remove it if there is judgment that there is a likelihood of it being against the rules.