Permanent Domain

Community news and information about new or upcoming versions of AutoHotkey

Which permanent domain would you prefer?

Poll ended at 04 Oct 2013, 18:07

ahkscript.org
28
68%
ahkcommunity.org
13
32%
 
Total votes: 41
Alibaba
Posts: 479
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 16:15
Location: Germany

Re: Permanent Domain

09 Oct 2013, 16:42

I support HotkeyIt's idea to switch to v2 completely.
We shouldn't get in conflict with the old forum too much and right now seems to be the right moment to switch.
New forum. New language.
"Nothing is quieter than a loaded gun." - Heinrich Heine
IsNull
Posts: 15
Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 02:45

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 01:56

To reduce random shout-outs of new brand names, I have created a pool where we can collect new names: http://auto-hotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=214 Be creative NOW!
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sinkfaze
Posts: 609
Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 08:01

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 07:46

I disagree with moving to v2 and rebrading right now entirely.

Doing so allows Poly to free ride on all of the work Lexikos has done to make AHK, the original AHK that we all came to those forums for, great. If we were upset enough to all but abandon the forums based on his behavior, why are you now going to start doing him favors?

And in case no one else here has noticed, we have had zero gaming migration to these forums. Many of you may think them a nuisance but they outnumber us a thousand times over; they are essential to spreading the word about the software. I think we should be more concerned about how we attract the attention of that crowd than about a paradigm shift that only stands to benefit the very person who couldn't have cared less what benefitted us.
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nnnik
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 07:58

Because Poly does't matter.
This whole thing is not about abandoning Poly it's about making our own forum better.
So if we can avoid problems by doing so it is the right decision.
Recommends AHK Studio
Zelio
Posts: 275
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 00:45
Location: France

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 08:07

In fact we haven't gamer, because of search engine an hyperlink legacy... I guess AHK are used by 60% of gamers, 30% of workers , and we only have the 10% (who are not guess) core member. To attract gamers it is something very easy... 1) be visible on google 2) new and better application 3) stay helpfull are we are to gain noobs loyality... I will be a little sarcastic but just look how Apple did with Iphone and geeks community :D
About sadness with the old forum and Poly, you are right, but to leech gamers will take more time with a clone than with a new things... It is not a gift, he will maintain something dead, as a zombie forum with an application without update/upgrade, just look bottom of forum there are a lot of guests without members, he live in the shadow of the past...
http://www.google.fr/trends/explore?q=a ... key&cmpt=q 1.0.48 is climax, and poly ownership is some month after
Also Lexikos can protect more his project with licence too and stay open source, just add protection about usurpation and false fork without his consent, to have a project integrity and legitimate clearly written (by default all is forbidden if not written, that is the point that Poly don't understand, intellectual propriety).
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sinkfaze
Posts: 609
Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 08:01

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 08:14

nnnik wrote:Because Poly does't matter.
The whole reason this forum came into existence is because right now Poly does matter to AHK, so that logic doesn't fly. Whether we like it or not, that's the reality.

And sticking with v1.1 is no more problematic (and arguably less problematic) than moving to v2, because we aren't trying to sell people on the new. We can stay the course that's always been in place and lead the established users to the change in a natural progression.

The first rule of sales: it costs more to get a new customer than to retain an old one.
guest3456
Posts: 2547
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 09:40

sticking with 1.1 still allows Poly to benefit just the same as if you fork to v2.

poly keeps 'his' website where the majority of users will visit

this new fork website will only have the hardcore users, at least until the new site starts ranking higher in google. and even then, there will be confusion about the two sites and which one to choose

thats why fincs is right in suggesting the best solution is one where the community is not split

gregster
Posts: 2662
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 06:48

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 10:05

Switching to v2 and rebranding will be counter-productive, I guess. At the moment, we would keep v1.1 users (many of them will be potential v2 users) in the rain.

And of course, noone will limit "Poly's forum" to v1.1. There will be many posts there about changing scripts from v1.1 and v2 because people will use these versions parallely. Why should the v1.1 users then necessarily come here? Poly wants to keep his forum at the moment, for whatever reasons. That's why he will be hosting v2forums, too, of course.

This forum here should be an alternative to Poly's that still will be there, when Poly decides one day to pull the plug entirely on the old forum.

The best way to get users here, is to deliver better quality support and to show that structures are more democratic and reliable here. Since most people are still using v1.1, it would be great to continue support for them, so that they already know the advantages of this forum, when they switch to v2.

_edited_
Last edited by gregster on 10 Oct 2013, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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sinkfaze
Posts: 609
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 10:12

guest3456 wrote:sticking with 1.1 still allows Poly to benefit just the same as if you fork to v2.
Poly doesn't benefit from sticking with v1.1, he just isn't hurt by it. Moving to v2 provides him a benefit.
guest3456 wrote:this new fork website will only have the hardcore users, at least until the new site starts ranking higher in google...
That isn't the only way to reach existing users, but those users will also have no reason to care if our only pitch is to ask them to cross the Rubicon from what they're happy and familiar with.

And wasn't that the whole point of this to begin with? To make things simpler and easier?
Zelio
Posts: 275
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 00:45
Location: France

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 10:28

Some have strange doubts...
What will do 300 guests with zero registred member when they ask help ? The best way is to stop deliver support in the old forum...
What will happen if you use the common AHK 1.1 syntax on AHK v2 ? It will work, or minor change to do on all popular example or library...
What will effect of select AHK as name in rebrand ? Total confusion, bad reference with search engine...

edit: and check what restrication we can written to protect the project integrity
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tank
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 10:37

sinkfaze wrote:Doing so allows Poly to free ride on all of the work Lexikos has done to make AHK, the original AHK that we all came to those forums for, great. If we were upset enough to all but abandon the forums based on his behavior, why are you now going to start doing him favors?

And in case no one else here has noticed, we have had zero gaming migration to these forums. Many of you may think them a nuisance but they outnumber us a thousand times over; they are essential to spreading the word about the software. I think we should be more concerned about how we attract the attention of that crowd than about a paradigm shift that only stands to benefit the very person who couldn't have cared less what benefitted us.
but since its open source cant he simply copy any new work to his site? this really doesnt matter because we dont have any control over it. lets not forget that it took a decade to build that audience. it will take time again thogh not as much
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
but not in despair; Persecuted‚ but not forsaken; cast down‚ but not destroyed;
https://www.facebook.com/ahkscript.org
If you have forum suggestions please submit a pull request
Thanks Tank :thumbup:
guest3456
Posts: 2547
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:00

sinkfaze wrote: That isn't the only way to reach existing users, but those users will also have no reason to care if our only pitch is to ask them to cross the Rubicon from what they're happy and familiar with.
they will have no reason to care anyway even if both use 1.1

polys "autohotkey.com" which has the brand name recognition and the long standing reputation and huge userbase
vs
new fork website with few hardcore users

most casual users will stick with "what they're happy and familiar with", whether we use 1.1 or v2
just like tank said, it will take time to re-built that audience.

fincs was spot on (and repeated it) in my opinion about not breaking the community. but then you have to deal with poly until he relents and gives up control. that seems unlikely. rock. hard place.
And wasn't that the whole point of this to begin with? To make things simpler and easier?
no, at least not from what i understand

the point is solely to break free from poly. the point was not to make anything easier or simpler. breaking free from poly will cause a split, which only makes things more difficult. nature of the beast
Last edited by guest3456 on 10 Oct 2013, 11:06, edited 2 times in total.

guest3456
Posts: 2547
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:03

tank wrote:but since its open source cant he simply copy any new work to his site? this really doesnt matter because we dont have any control over it. lets not forget that it took a decade to build that audience. it will take time again thogh not as much
he cannot copy the work, and claim it is his

but he can simply link to any new downloads, he can link to the github source, and he can create a new forum for AHKv2 users

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tank
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:15

He doesnt claime anything as his own work. but hosting and distributing is totally allowed
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
but not in despair; Persecuted‚ but not forsaken; cast down‚ but not destroyed;
https://www.facebook.com/ahkscript.org
If you have forum suggestions please submit a pull request
Thanks Tank :thumbup:
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sinkfaze
Posts: 609
Joined: 01 Oct 2013, 08:01

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:15

I think people have forgotten that (then) AHK_L for a long time did not take off with general users. It took the genius of jethrow to create a thread allowing people to ask questions and get good explanations of the differences and the benefits of the two versions before things began to shift.

But the context of that success was key: People had a place to dip their toes in the water without having to dive in head first. They could ask questions (or read others' questions) about the radically different changes going on while enjoying the safety and familiarity of the old build. Then when they felt sure of what they were getting into, they made the switch. It also helped other forum members to better answer the kinds of questions people had about it.

If you leave users cold, they'll go somewhere else, and unfortunately most of them will leave without any of us even getting a chance to answer a question from them. That is NOT the road we need to go down.
guest3456
Posts: 2547
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:19

sinkfaze wrote:I think people have forgotten that (then) AHK_L for a long time did not take off with general users. It took the genius of jethrow to create a thread allowing people to ask questions and get good explanations of the differences and the benefits of the two versions before things began to shift.
eh, my guess that AHKL didn't take off with 'general users' (gamers?) until poly agreed to use it as simply "AHK" and linked it as the main download. and these people don't even realize that they are using _L and probably never use the features. there are often questions about why the script doesn't work that are resolved by telling the user to install the ANSI version instead of Unicode

those users in the jethrow thread were more of the 'hardcore' variety willing to experiment.

anyway, you guys can do whichever you want. i will adapt either way

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tank
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:40

First step of any commercial endeavor (even if it is a free offering its still comercial)
Identify the target audience. it is dangerous to just say "the existing audience". there are many faults there but mainly in trying to actively compete with the status quo. there are opportunities to identify an audience that not only favors leadership transparency but also targeting the professional user. (including the poker crowd). We were forced to ignore this audience by both Chris and Poly. and it is in fact better supported than ever before

second design use cases for that audience. how do those users in our audience actually use products like ours.

design the product. In this case a web site. focus on products that audience will want. do not worry about other similar products except to do it better. I do not care what Poly does with AutoHotkey.com. Holding on to the past will hold us back. we must focus on the future. Those users that desire our product will come.

Finally we have to market it. Focus on visibility in the search engines. google addwords and the like.

Support this new process without concerning ourselves with the past or alternates. Support with Zeal.
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
but not in despair; Persecuted‚ but not forsaken; cast down‚ but not destroyed;
https://www.facebook.com/ahkscript.org
If you have forum suggestions please submit a pull request
Thanks Tank :thumbup:
Zelio
Posts: 275
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 00:45
Location: France

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:46

We can argument for a long time but sincerely he can do whatever he want, legal or not, moral or not, 90% of core member or helper will not help him... We are the only valuable thing who turn the wheel of this community... Code can enter in public domain, we can choice a name as SHIT, in all directions it will be better and we will have helper and new user... Poly can't have time of 20 helpfull member, added with 100 casual or returned users...
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DataLife
Posts: 321
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 19:52

Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 11:53

My fear is that we dedicate this forum to ahk v2, and then sit back and watch the other forum wither away for poor management and or Poly just pulling the plug.

If this happens, what will happen to the hundreds or thousands of users that don't use ahk v2? They won't have a forum for support. Some will migrate to the ahk v2 forum, the rest will splinter to other online ahk support sites, others will go to another scripting or programming language.

If this forum does go to ahk v2, would Lexikos decide to stop development on ahk_L and focus all his efforts on ahk_v2?

I do think at some point we should migrate to ahk_v2 completely and stop development on ahk_L, I just don't think this is the right time with the forum split.

We need to have a well thought out migration plan after this new forum is stable.
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tank
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Re: Permanent Domain

10 Oct 2013, 12:20

Let me be clear here Unless lexikos states some other desire a V2 Forum will be separate.

this Forum is for the current version
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
but not in despair; Persecuted‚ but not forsaken; cast down‚ but not destroyed;
https://www.facebook.com/ahkscript.org
If you have forum suggestions please submit a pull request
Thanks Tank :thumbup:

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