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Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 10 Oct 2013, 13:08
by Zelio
I am not a MS fan, but now I know why Microsoft started Shared Source Licence for some freeware, perhaps they had their own Poly in a non european laws state...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 10 Oct 2013, 14:13
by sinkfaze
tank wrote:Let me be clear here Unless lexikos states some other desire a V2 Forum will be separate.
What about a v2 subforum here? To me, the lack of a separate subforum for AHK_L was also a bit of a hindrance on the old forum. Keep it separate, but inviting.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 10 Oct 2013, 14:48
by tank
_l was a continuation not an alternate the choice by Chris and then Poly to keep it separate was a huge mistake
v2 is a compatbility break

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 10 Oct 2013, 15:41
by just me
_L was an alternate, and v2 is a new start of _L, not 1.0.48.05.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 02:49
by lexikos
DataLife wrote:If this forum does go to ahk v2, would Lexikos decide to stop development on ahk_L and focus all his efforts on ahk_v2?
That has been my intention for well over a year; possibly since I uploaded the first v2 alpha. I have absolutely no plans for further v1 development aside from fixing bugs. Most of the changes over the last year have been bug fixes or changes with v2 in mind, or were developed by fincs.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 07:32
by Seidenweber
lexikos wrote:I have absolutely no plans for further v1 development aside from fixing bugs.
I did not realize, that v2 is ready to release. This sounds to me, as if time has come to upgrade to 2.0 ?

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 08:05
by DataLife
Seidenweber wrote:
lexikos wrote:I have absolutely no plans for further v1 development aside from fixing bugs.
I did not realize, that v2 is ready to release. This sounds to me, as if time has come to upgrade to 2.0 ?
Someone asked this pertaining to when v2 would be released.
I mean, will it be this year, next year or in 20 years? Can you maybe make it a little bit more exact?
Here is Lexikos response.

http://www.autohotkey.com/board/topic/6 ... ntry602051

It may be tomorrow, or it may be 5 years. Are we ready to support a scripting language that may not officially be released for 5 years? It has been in development at least 2 1/2 years.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 08:56
by tank
Lexikos would you prefer a clean separat forum or a subforum for v2 ? Or something else. After my back procedure today I can get stared on it and we can create geshi highlighting support

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 09:09
by joedf
he might abandon V2 but dont worry, if he does, it will not die! FORRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKK! :D

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 09:20
by Coco
joedf wrote:he might abandon V2
If I understood correctly, his intention is to focus his efforts on the development of v2

My two cents: The main page of auto-hotkey.com(or whatever the final domain name is) needs a redesign. Important information/announcements[news, latest releases, forks, events/seminars/webinars(going too far but still possible), etc.] should be visible on the main page itself along with some newbie-targeted infromation. Both v1.1 and v2 can co-exist just like Python v2 and v3. We can put something like: "New to AHK or choosing between v1.1 or v2? Read AHK v1.1 or v2". Just like jethrow's post in the other forum on AHK_L, wherein, supposedly, it should have been visible on the main page as it is vital information. Visibility, reduced confusion, freedom of choice.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 09:48
by guest3456
DataLife wrote: It may be tomorrow, or it may be 5 years. Are we ready to support a scripting language that may not officially be released for 5 years? It has been in development at least 2 1/2 years.
its been "in development" only by name. HotKeyIt already said that he's been using it for a year without any issues.

whether Lexikos "releases" it tomorrow or keeps it as "alpha", its the same thing. the bugfixes will either come in v2.01 or v2.00.a38nas9.alpha

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 10:01
by HotKeyIt
I would like to add that in my view, if we switch, only support for new features is dropped for v1.1, so lexikos would be able to concentrate on v2. Currently most updates/features go side by side and bug/wish reports are 99 % for v1.

There is also an advantage: v1.1 would become final release :)

We can still support v1 and have it available for download as well, also major bugs would be fixed I think.
When we switch, it will just mean that v2 is the main branch and more development time can be spend in v2.
Also v2 will evolve much faster since bugs and wishes arise only when it will be widely used.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 11:08
by Seidenweber
+1 @HotKeyIt

But my main question before upgrading is, whether all obsolete syntax was fully cleared out from v2.0.
I'm willing to make a final cut with v1.1 but only, if v2 will stay (at least for the most part) compatible to itself.

If the answer is "yes", from my point of view, the official release (w/o 'alpha') should be done rather sooner than later.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 11:32
by tank
We aren't ready for a release upgrade if I understand. The current version will only be bug fixes. V2 should be listed as an alpha release. When lexikos anounces an official release for v2 it will be supported by my web dev efforts

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 11 Oct 2013, 19:24
by lexikos
DataLife wrote:It may be tomorrow, or it may be 5 years. Are we ready to support a scripting language that may not officially be released for 5 years? It has been in development at least 2 1/2 years.
Your argument seems weak to me. If it will be 5 years, it won't be changing rapidly, and therefore should be easy to support. AutoHotkey 1.x has been in development for much longer than 2.5 years, and look how well it has been supported.

What you should probably be more concerned about is the nature of the planned changes, and when those changes might be implemented. However, unlike v2, most of the changes I made to v1 were never planned in the first place. With v2, you know roughly where it's going, if not when.

(Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing for or against v2, just exercising logic.)
tank wrote:Lexikos would you prefer a clean separat forum or a subforum for v2 ? Or something else.
No, I don't have a preference. I suppose that v2 users will use it more than I.
HotKeyIt wrote:I would like to add that in my view, if we switch, only support for new features is dropped for v1.1, so lexikos would be able to concentrate on v2.
There's nothing to drop. I already stated that I have no plans for v1.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 12 Oct 2013, 02:49
by just me
Well, this looks like a chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody dares to use AHK v2 because of its alpha state, and v2 will stay alpha as long as nobody dares to use it.

IMO we should asap have a v2 forum at least.

@Lexikos: Would you please transfer the most important v2 threads into the new forum? At the moment, everybody willing to get informations has to visit the old forum.

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 12 Oct 2013, 05:54
by lexikos
What important v2 threads? I suppose there's just THE v2 thread - really just the first post, which has links to the downloads and the two all-important documents containing changes and plans. There are some scattered discussions, but nothing I would consider important. The important stuff is available at the following locations:

http://lexikos.github.io/v2/
http://l.autohotkey.net/v2-thoughts.htm
http://l.autohotkey.net/v2-changes.htm

These have been around for a while, so it's just a matter of visibility (i.e. where will someone wanting to know about v2 look?). I've adjusted the links and uploaded an info page here:

http://auto-hotkey.com/v2/

(Visibility is still a problem, since this is currently the only link to that page. I'll let someone else figure out a solution.)

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 12 Oct 2013, 07:08
by Seidenweber
Lexikos, there seems to be an urgent need to make clear your understanding of AHK2's "'alpha" state.

In common view, the 'alpha' phase is a first testing phase of software, which usually can be unstable and cause crashes. Until a "feature freeze" everything can be changed.

Therefore I wrote the following description (May 2013): "Preview the next generation of AutoHotkey, developed/maintained by Steve Gray (Lexikos). Recommended for ambitious users and programmers, who are keen on experimenting and want to take part in the developement of the next generation of AutoHotkey."

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 12 Oct 2013, 07:39
by DataLife
Lexikos, concerning ahk_v2, will you be releasing a Beta, Release Candidate, RTM and then GA? Or will you skip a stage or two?

Re: Permanent Domain

Posted: 12 Oct 2013, 19:15
by lexikos
Forget about labels. They mean something different to each person. The important part should already be clear: more changes will be made to v2 which will break scripts.
It is currently in the alpha stage of development; more compatibility-breaking changes have yet to be made.
Source: AutoHotkey v2
DataLife, I haven't thought about it and don't see how the answer helps anyone, since I haven't given a timeframe for completion of this or any other stage.