Reminding new members to use code tags

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Scr1pter
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Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 10:21

Hi,

There are a lot of new members who post their codes without using code tags.
What do you think to add some additional sentence/message when new users want to submit a post/thread?

As far as I can see, the yellow user name disappears once they've created 3 posts.
This means, there is some logic which could be enhanced with an extra message.
Something like:
“Please click on the code button in case you've added some code!“
“Don't forget to use code tags when submitting any code!“

I believe that's much easier than creating some function which automatically recognises code and adds code tags.
That's something for the year 2030 :lol:

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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jeeswg
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 10:58

We should have a 'how to use the forum' video. That you are linked to when you join the forum.
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tank
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 11:46

Sigh this is a 15 year long battle and nothing has actually worked. I gave up like 5 years ago
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
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kyuuuuri

Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 12:33

Maybe add a rule that says that if they don't use [code][/code] their post will be locked.
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Scr1pter
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 13:11

But it's possible that their post contains zero code.
For this reason I think it might be too "harsh" to force code-tags.

Perhaps there could actually be a rule which focuses on characters like :: or {
The chance is pretty high to have them if it's a code.

When they post no code, I see no reason they might use :: or {
After that a message could pop-up: "It seems you posted code, remember to enclose it by using code-tags.

Is it also possible that the code-tags button has a different color than the others?
I think it's probably the most important button from all those.
Something like:
Image

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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kyuuuri
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

12 Mar 2019, 19:02

Scr1pter wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 13:11
But it's possible that their post contains zero code.
For this reason I think it might be too "harsh" to force code-tags.

Perhaps there could actually be a rule which focuses on characters like :: or {
The chance is pretty high to have them if it's a code.

When they post no code, I see no reason they might use :: or {
After that a message could pop-up: "It seems you posted code, remember to enclose it by using code-tags.

Is it also possible that the code-tags button has a different color than the others?
I think it's probably the most important button from all those.
Something like:
Image

Cheers!
I meant something like "If you are sharing your code you HAVE to use [code][/code] or your topic will be locked/deleted"

Maybe "::\r\n" is a good filter.
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Scr1pter
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

14 Mar 2019, 12:56

tank wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 11:46
Sigh this is a 15 year long battle and nothing has actually worked. I gave up like 5 years ago
So it means this topic is really over?
I believe there is always a solution.

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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tidbit
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

14 Mar 2019, 19:36

you can make something as big, flashy and forced as you want, many people will still ignore it. we've tried countless things on the forum (and irc) to get people to read, properly post their code, whatever. Nothing works.

"you make it idiotproof, they build a bigger idiot". its harsh, but true.

Making it big, red, bold, flashing will do nothing for the majority of users. coding in a code-detector (the recommended web-IRC client has this) still fails (people occasionally post 10+ lines of code directly in chat). It'll prevent some, but not all. I'd even say not most. It's not worth the effort.

it could maybe be reduced by removing the quick-reply box and forcing the full editor, for more Code Button Spotlight. but meh.
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Scr1pter
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

14 Mar 2019, 20:08

Of course there will always be some guys who will ignore everything.
However, the percentage would surely be lower.
Even if from 10 guys only 3 - 5 would read and do it,
it will be better than nothing.

I think quick reply is not the problem, because if you create a thread, there is no quick reply.
You already have all buttons and smileys.
As I already mentioned it here, the code tag button should look more different.
Red, bold, negativ, flashing - no matter - just different.

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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jeeswg
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 03:09

- There was a discussion here:
users don't use code tags - AutoHotkey Community
https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42814
- The first image here was a good start:
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
https://imgur.com/a/u1XLD
- I'd have a series of 4 images in 1. The text of some code with code tags, and what it looks like submitted. The same text without code, and what it looks like submitted.
- This is to: help people *notice* the concept of code tags, and why it's beneficial. To help draw their attention to the issue, and to explain it simply.
- If you tell me that it's easy to do XYZ, but I've never wanted to do XYZ, I'll forget how to do XYZ. People need not only to know how to use code tags, but to be motivated to do so.

- If you really wanted some action, you could force users to complete a sort of CAPTCHA, before they could submit their first post, whereby they'd have to edit some text to add code tags to it.

- I myself was unsure about 'c' tags. I saw them once, and had to wait ages until I saw them again so that I could link someone to ask how to use them. Plus I looked at the html first to try and figure it out for myself.
- So, even when I wanted to find out how to use something similar to code tags, it wasn't easy.
- Also ... there could be a clear HELP option somewhere on the 'Full Editor & Preview'. With tips/*images* like these.

- Problems like these, education problems, you have to keep thinking and tweaking until you get it right.
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Scr1pter
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 05:42

What if new threads automatically contain some pre-defined lines?
For example:
Image

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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sinkfaze
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 10:18

tank wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 11:46
Sigh this is a 15 year long battle and nothing has actually worked. I gave up like 5 years ago
:+1:

I might argue that the process of adding code tags is much less obvious in newer editor layout, but new users barely used them when it was really obvious. We're not saying nothing could be done programmatically or administratively, but the burden to staff and new users is hardly worth it.

If you see something, say something, otherwise just deal with it.
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tidbit
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 10:22

seen that in places. lots of people either delete it all "don't tell me what to do", or don't understand it and just type their message above/below it.
and people would probably often place code on a line between the word "insert" and "code" on your image.

people just want help and/or spoonfeed. they don't bother analyzing how stuff looks, should be used, what's available.

We've been at this for over a decade, there is no winning. anything you suggest can and will be bypassed, or screwed up by the people (which is many) who don't care and just want answer now

jeeswg: hover over tags for a description and usage. you can also quote posts to see how they get used. Image
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 11:56

tidbit wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 10:22
seen that in places. lots of people either delete it all "don't tell me what to do", or don't understand it and just type their message above/below it.
and people would probably often place code on a line between the word "insert" and "code" on your image.

people just want help and/or spoonfeed. they don't bother analyzing how stuff looks, should be used, what's available.

We've been at this for over a decade, there is no winning. anything you suggest can and will be bypassed, or screwed up by the people (which is many) who don't care and just want answer now

jeeswg: hover over tags for a description and usage. you can also quote posts to see how they get used. Image
Sorry guys but some of us have been at this problem a while now. the best ideas had at best marginal results. You're underestimating how ignorance drives behavior. Tidbit himself has literally tried some form of every one of your suggestions on IRC. I want nothing more than to see a truly new and promising idea. but it seems that the internet has more people willing to bypass these practices than follow them.

The best advice honestly is to suggest they use code tags and if they don't.... simply don't help them.
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swagfag
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 13:39

i dont see why what kyuuuri and scripter are suggesting wouldnt work.
come up with a heuristic. if there are no or empty code(box) tags, parse the post, a user is trying to submit, for the presence of common commands(noenv, batchlines, ::, etc, or even all possible commands)
if a threshold is exceeded, prevent submission and alert the user, instructing them to insert code tags
worst case scenario they dump their entire post inside of [code][/code], which would still be preferable to the alternative
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 13:46

Write such a plugin and I will be happy to try it. 2 things. Its much harder than it sounds. will simply result in users just not posting. We decided long ago the rewards are not worth the result
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 13:49

swagfag wrote:
15 Mar 2019, 13:39
worst case scenario
Nope, worst case scenario is people being dissuaded in participating in the community because of nags
We are troubled on every side‚ yet not distressed; we are perplexed‚
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kyuuuri
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 17:03

To be honest I prefer people not posting if they are going to ignore every rule, like I don't even want to answer because it's wasting more time than needed trying to figure out what they need.
A simple rule like "use code tags or your post will be insta deleted / locked" might be good. We can have 2 or 3 moderators for the ask for help section.
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Scr1pter
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 17:07

Yep it's true, sometimes you have to settle it in a different way.
“Follow the rules or your thread will be locked“.
It sounds hard and rude, but some ignorant guys might only understand this language.

Also, a lot of unregistered users read threads here.
They will also understand the importance of using code tags.

Cheers!
Please use code tags when posting code!
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swagfag
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Re: Reminding new members to use code tags

15 Mar 2019, 18:16

oh come on! lets not pretend that a popup box saying "hey! guy. looks like u tryna post code. wrap ur code with codetags to proceed!" is that much of a barrier to entry. and even if it prevents one mf from dumping his unquoted, copypasted csgo aimbot, then so be it. i can live with that. id even go as far as to say id be glad if that were to happen.

in that sense, i agree with what kyuuuri is saying. the only thing im opposed to, though, is having "use tags or thread goes bye bye" warnings. thats just more unnecessary work for the mods. and if theyre gonna lock/delete the thread, might as well not do that and just have them put the codetags themselves.

lastly, ure right, idk how hard it would be to implement such a thing. but i aint willing to believe its as hard as u make it out to be

here, a naive uninformed approach of the top of my head
  • check for no or empty code tags - use regex or something
  • empty codetags or no codetags detected
    • grab post contents
    • string split on space
    • for each word, check if its part of an array containing AHK commands/functions/ahk-specific signatures (maybe omit super common stuff, like "Send")
    • if more than x amount of such words have been identified
      • the post likely contains actual code, show the popup box, dont submit anyhing yet. goto start
    • no or too little such ahk commands/signatures have been identified
      • post probably doesnt contain code, so let them proceed. the end
  • at least some valid nonempty codetags have been detected
    • let them post it. the end

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