[issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

Post AHK_H specific scripts & libraries and discuss the usage and development of HotKeyIt's fork/branch
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

[issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

08 May 2019, 14:43

hey, i noticed that some Windows 10 users can't run any AHK_H scripts, even though they have VC++ and dotnet installed, but some of them can. does anybody know what the trouble is and how to solve it?

i've been ignoring that issue for a couple of years, but today i've been asked about that again and I decided to ask.
i don't expect someone to answer me, I'm just going to leave this here
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

08 May 2019, 16:37

They don't. After trying to launch a script, nothing happens, no messages show up, the process just terminates itself.
SOTE
Posts: 1036
Joined: 15 Jun 2015, 06:21

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

09 May 2019, 05:49

norths1 wrote:
08 May 2019, 14:43
hey, i noticed that some Windows 10 users can't run any AHK_H scripts, even though they have VC++ and dotnet installed, but some of them can. does anybody know what the trouble is and how to solve it?

i've been ignoring that issue for a couple of years, but today i've been asked about that again and I decided to ask.
i don't expect someone to answer me, I'm just going to leave this here
I'm confused. Why does your AHK_H scripts need VC++ or dotnet (.NET) installed? AHK_H scripts can compile into executables (.exe) and run without additional programs.
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

09 May 2019, 09:22

SOTE wrote:
09 May 2019, 05:49
I'm confused. Why do AHK_H scripts need VC++ or dotnet (.NET) to be installed for you?
i'm not saying they do, idk what exactly prevents some people from being able to run an _H script, but the important thing here is that they can't get it to work, and i wanna figure out why.

SOTE wrote:
09 May 2019, 05:49
AHK_H scripts can be compiled into executables (.exe) and run without additional programs.
it's true about AHK_L, but AHK_H is a little unstable.

HotKeyIt wrote:
08 May 2019, 15:54
i think the problem might be in one of the anti-debugging techniques
maybe you could build a debug program that would collect all relevant information for you to know what's going on and what to do to fix the bug? (i would share it with a man who can't run an _H one)
ofc if you're still supporting the project and have time for that
SOTE
Posts: 1036
Joined: 15 Jun 2015, 06:21

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

09 May 2019, 12:01

Your description of how the users are running the AHK_H app is quite vague. Maybe this might help:

1) What version of AHK_H are they running?

You stated that you have been ignoring this issue for a "couple of years", so sounds like you might be running a significantly old version.
I'm confident that people on AutoHotkey would like to help you, but you probably need to be more specific. At last you have finally told us about whether or not you are running AHK_H v2 or AHK_H v1. But that bring up a very obvious question, are you sure it's 1.1.32.0 and not an earlier version?

By the way, I understand that it might be hard for you to answer that question, because of how HotKeyIt has organized it on GitHub, where the latest version is presented. You can right-click on the AutoHotkey_H executable that you are using, go to properties, and then go to details to get that specific version number. Because what might be a problem for say 1.1.31.0 might not be a problem for 1.1.32.0.

You mentioned that some of the users were having the problem, as oppose to all. That means that your program could be working on some Windows 10 Pro 2019, Version 1909, OS Build 18363.752 computers. Maybe you want to clarify, as this could indicate problems with your code, since they all aren't having the problem.
Last edited by SOTE on 30 Mar 2020, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

10 May 2019, 03:07

1) the latest one (it's about all the versions actually)
2) both - if they install ahk_h, it doesn't work as well
3) it doesn't matter, ahk_h doesn't work at all
4) hmm... never thought of that, we'll check it out, thanks. Probably an antivirus trying to automatically virtualize unknown programs is preventing ahk_h from working
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

11 May 2019, 12:54

they say it worked on rs4, but doesn't on rs6
and they have no antivirus, so that's not it
guest3456
Posts: 3123
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

27 Nov 2019, 11:00

norths1 wrote:
11 May 2019, 12:54
they say it worked on rs4, but doesn't on rs6
and they have no antivirus, so that's not it
what are rs4 and rs6? what do those mean?

have you figured this out yet?

norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

08 Mar 2020, 17:58

guest3456 wrote:
27 Nov 2019, 11:00
norths1 wrote:
11 May 2019, 12:54
they say it worked on rs4, but doesn't on rs6
and they have no antivirus, so that's not it
what are rs4 and rs6? what do those mean?

have you figured this out yet?
these are codenames for Windows updates. RS means Redstone. if i'm not mistaken, rs6 could be an alias for 19H1.
ahk_h doesn't seem to start on the new Windows updates starting from rs5 or rs6/19h1

No, it hasn't been solved. Users keep telling me they can't run my application on Windows 10. All I can tell them is use the previous version that was packed into an AHK_L executable, but it doesn't contain new features because of AHK_L not supporting them.

Actually this issue is no longer relevant. Looks like AutoHotkey is dying. I stopped supporting my apps written in AHK a long time ago.
SOTE
Posts: 1036
Joined: 15 Jun 2015, 06:21

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

09 Mar 2020, 15:30

norths1 wrote:
10 May 2019, 03:07
1) the latest one (it's about all the versions actually)
2) both - if they install ahk_h, it doesn't work as well
3) it doesn't matter, ahk_h doesn't work at all
4) hmm... never thought of that, we'll check it out, thanks. Probably an antivirus trying to automatically virtualize unknown programs is preventing ahk_h from working
norths1 wrote:
11 May 2019, 12:54
they say it worked on rs4, but doesn't on rs6
and they have no antivirus, so that's not it
These answers to the questions were quite weird. It's very hard for people to help you, if you are being vague and not answering questions specifically, with detail, or not giving examples.

Furthermore, AutoHotkey_H is a superset of AutoHotkey_L. If AutoHotkey_L is working, it's very much likely that AutoHotkey_H will too. Where a user might have issues is when compiling AutoHotkey_H, so that they can have a password other than the default. The user might not have any experience with compiling or compiled programming language (like C/C++), so have a hard time or mess up the steps. However, there is a step by step guide (https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62308) An issue related to that is if the user has chosen to use the MD or MT version of AutoHotkey_H (https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=64573)
norths1 wrote: Actually this issue is no longer relevant. Looks like AutoHotkey is dying. I stopped supporting my apps written in AHK a long time ago.
AutoHotkey is open-source (so other developers can come in or fork it), has existed for 11 years, has been updated just 3 months ago, and has 4 versions (AHK_L, AHK_L v2, AHK_H, and AHK_H v2). As long as Microsoft Windows is still popular, so likely will AutoHotkey. It's not dying, but alive and well.

Sorry, but I don't even understand the last part of your sentence either. If you write apps in a different programming language, simply tell your users to migrate to your new app or simply write a new app. You could also hand over your app to another programmer or possibly open-source it and ask others to update it.
norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

29 Mar 2020, 07:41

SOTE wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 15:30
These answers to the questions were quite weird. It's very hard for people to help you, if you are being vague and not answering questions specifically, with detail, or not giving examples.
ok, i'll give an update as soon as I collect all the necessary information (maybe never, no time for this now)

SOTE wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 15:30
Furthermore, AutoHotkey_H is a superset of AutoHotkey_L. If AutoHotkey_L is working, it's very much likely that AutoHotkey_H will too.
no, this is not how it works
AHK_H contains a set of anti-debugging techniques that stop your program from starting/working if it spots itself under debugging.
But as we can see, some of these techniques are screwing up after Windows has been updated.

SOTE wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 15:30
Where a user might have issues is when compiling AutoHotkey_H, so that they can have a password other than the default. The user might not have any experience with compiling or compiled programming language (like C/C++), so have a hard time or mess up the steps. However, there is a step by step guide (https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62308) An issue related to that is if the user has chosen to use the MD or MT version of AutoHotkey_H (https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=64573)
you misunderstood and missed the whole point
ok, maybe this is because of me "being vague" on giving answers
SOTE
Posts: 1036
Joined: 15 Jun 2015, 06:21

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

29 Mar 2020, 09:55

no, this is not how it works
AHK_H contains a set of anti-debugging techniques that stop your program from starting/working if it spots itself under debugging.
But as we can see, some of these techniques are screwing up after Windows has been updated.
The impression is being given that you are more interested in AutoHotkey_H's anti-debugging for unknown reasons, in the guise of having a problem running it on Windows 10.

You haven't proven the case that AutoHotkey_H's anti-debugger is causing the claimed problem with the new Windows 10 update. This claim that you are making individually, isn't supported by nor reported by other users, so far. Why haven't other users on this forum complained about not being able to run AutoHotkey_H on Windows 10?

Just saying that "some users" have problems running your programs on Windows 10, doesn't mean the problem is with AutoHotkey_H, as it can be specific to the code of your program. You also haven't given any sample code in which you think might be causing the problem. In fact, you condemned AutoHotkey as a dying language in which you no longer support.

As you gave no sample code for anybody to look at, I referred to the compile and the MD vs MT issues, because that's where many people using AutoHotkey_H have got stuck. Just some possible suggestions, didn't say they were definitive solutions. But as far as suggestions go, don't see why you haven't done the below:

. Compile your program with the latest AutoHotkey_L instead of AutoHotkey_H, since you feel its anti-debugger is in your way.

Note- It's not clear what features that your software is using in AutoHotkey_H, that is not in AutoHotkey_L that your program needs. If it's just the anti-debugger, then using AutoHotkey_L will be fine.

. If you feel AutoHotkey is a dying language not worthy of your support, why not rewrite the program in the other language that you know, then have your users use that version. Personally, that's what I would do.
guest3456
Posts: 3123
Joined: 09 Oct 2013, 10:31

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

29 Mar 2020, 14:19

i use AHK_H, and i appreciate @norths1 's potential bug report... its not unheard of to have random crashes on random systems, and its also not unexpected that AHK_H would have more bugs than AHK_L for the simple fact that there are exponentially less users of _H than _L, and so its been tested significantly less. until we get more information, nothing should be ruled out.

norths1
Posts: 21
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 03:06

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

30 Mar 2020, 10:17

SOTE wrote:
29 Mar 2020, 09:55
no, this is not how it works
AHK_H contains a set of anti-debugging techniques that stop your program from starting/working if it spots itself under debugging.
But as we can see, some of these techniques are screwing up after Windows has been updated.
The impression is being given that you are more interested in AutoHotkey_H's anti-debugging for unknown reasons, in the guise of having a problem running it on Windows 10.

You haven't proven the case that AutoHotkey_H's anti-debugger is causing the claimed problem with the new Windows 10 update. This claim that you are making individually, isn't supported by nor reported by other users, so far. Why haven't other users on this forum complained about not being able to run AutoHotkey_H on Windows 10?

Just saying that "some users" have problems running your programs on Windows 10, doesn't mean the problem is with AutoHotkey_H, as it can be specific to the code of your program. You also haven't given any sample code in which you think might be causing the problem. In fact, you condemned AutoHotkey as a dying language in which you no longer support.

As you gave no sample code for anybody to look at, I referred to the compile and the MD vs MT issues, because that's where many people using AutoHotkey_H have got stuck. Just some possible suggestions, didn't say they were definitive solutions. But as far as suggestions go, don't see why you haven't done the below:

. Compile your program with the latest AutoHotkey_L instead of AutoHotkey_H, since you feel its anti-debugger is in your way.

Note- It's not clear what features that your software is using in AutoHotkey_H, that is not in AutoHotkey_L that your program needs. If it's just the anti-debugger, then using AutoHotkey_L will be fine.

. If you feel AutoHotkey is a dying language not worthy of your support, why not rewrite the program in the other language that you know, then have your users use that version. Personally, that's what I would do.
not sure if you're really trying to help or just arguing/kidding/or whatever. Everything you say has nothing to do with the real problem.
I used AHK_H from the days when no user experienced any trouble with it. It doesn't matter which version of AHK_H it's going to be, i didn't change or update anything.

SOTE wrote: Just saying that "some users" have problems running your programs on Windows 10, doesn't mean the problem is with AutoHotkey_H, as it can be specific to the code of your program
Are you f'n serious? You don't have to rebuild AHK_H to use AHK_H. I never said I rebuilt it. I use the native executable compiled by @HotKeyIt
It's not just "some users" , a lot of users actually. They can't run any AHK_H app, not just mine (even if it's not compressed and encrypted). So you can't say the issue is on their end. AHK_H shouldn't have such a problem, our programs should get along with any OS.

If you mean ahk code (it's a script, not a program), ok here it is:

Code: Select all

; this sample is not working either, so it's not because of my code
msgbox testing

AHK_H-v1 apps won't start on:
Windows 10 Pro 2019
Version 1909
OS Build 18363.752
(at least some of the users I talked about are having the issue)

It's ok with:
Windows 10 Enterprise 2016 LTSB
Version 1607
OS Build 14393.2125

This is all I have so far. Maybe I will collect more data. The issue remains unsolved.
I got an idea, I'll put MessageBox'es into every anti-debugging section to figure out what exactly goes wrong.
HotKeyIt
Posts: 2135
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 18:35
Contact:

Re: [issue] AHK_H won't start on Windows 10

04 May 2020, 04:23

We have found a problem with nahimic software, especially one from dell, many users for many years have been reporting problems with that software, mostly crashing games but also teamspeak and others.
Take a look here: https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=326569#p326569

To fix we had to stop and disable Nahimic service and delete or rename the folder C:\ProgramData\A-Volute.
Also a fresh install of Windows and native drivers had solved the problem.

Hope this can fix the problem for you too.

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